Roadster Needs New Battery

[samacmcbride]

I’m recently in the market for a roadster and ideally I’d love to find one as early on as possible with all original parts (other than the battery).

I’ve come across a few that are in great shape but need new batteries. Is this as simple as a new battery or am I getting into a project that may end with a Roadster that doesn’t drive? Also, any idea on cost for a new battery?

Thank you!

 

[X.l.r.8]

The cost is $30,000, but the availability is 0. So yes unless it’s giveaway your in for a whole lot of heartache.

 

[ViperDoc]

Is it really not available at all? Last year they replaced mine due to a problem that went back to a prior warranty issue (without making me use my pre-bought battery replacement contract). It took a couple months, but they got me a battery with similar or perhaps a smidgeon more range than the one I had (although it took a lot of balancing to get that to be evident).

 

[X.l.r.8]

The best plan would be to read through the forum playing special attention to the roadster orphan thread and get an idea what you want and where your price point . A good start is getting to know the number of the car you are interested in, chances are there’s some history here about it. My personal favorite is Spaceballs green roadster for $40k.

 

[Kerios]

And whilst it does depend a little on the SC local to you, generally most folks are finding that it is taking on average a year plus to get a replacement. There are degradation issues with the replacement 3.0 programme which Tesla haven't resolved yet despite much talk, and the space part scenario is basically becoming a nightmare. However the force is strong in the community and parts can be found or replaced or revised eg Gruber et al. But if you want literally as easy ride with respect to ownership etc, a Tesla Roadster is probably not for you.

 

[samacmcbride]

These are really helpful responses. Thank you!

 

[petergrub]

Is it really not available at all?

Yes. As of March/April 2019, there are currently no 2.X or 3.0 batteries available. I can't speak for 1.5 batteries unless someone else knows.

 

[Kerios]

@petergrub , what would it take for you to design an after market battery pack, not necessarily of the capacity of the 3.0 pack, how far off do you think we are from having an third party sourced pack?

I wonder how many folks out there would like to consider this in light of maintaining the longevity of their cars, or indeed for those considering buying a Roadster which has a damaged, limited or failing pack?

I imagine that several aspects of the pack could be improved from the original (and probably the 3.0) packs, improving cooling, BMS, stability, servicing etc.

 

[ViperDoc]

Yes. As of March/April 2019, there are currently no 2.X or 3.0 batteries available. I can't speak for 1.5 batteries unless someone else knows.

Well I hope that changes. As someone who pre-bought his 1st replacement battery back in 2011, I am supposed to be able to get a new one of the original specs out to 2021 (eg, I was supposed to invoke replacement out as far as 10 years from signing, and for every year past 7, they supposedly give me $1000 back). I am still happy with my battery, so I have been torn whether to ask for a new 2.X battery at 10 years and pocket the $3K or give them $5K for a 3.0 battery.

 

[petergrub]

what would it take for you to design an after market battery pack, not necessarily of the capacity of the 3.0 pack, how far off do you think we are from having an third party sourced pack?

The tooling costs are easily in the 6 digits, and the molds for the sheets would need to be produced if we were to take an OEM battery enclosure to upgrade the cells internally like Tesla did with the 3.0 pack. The next problem is with the firmware changes necessary to make the Roadster accept the battery and possible range increase. We have plenty of over-discharged battery pack enclosures just waiting for replacement sheets.

A redesigned pack would be quite a different endeavor. Changing the physical size could be a challenge, but with today's lithium cells we could produce a similar pack in regards to CAC at 1/3 to 1/2 the original size. The problem may arise in the fact that the battery's degradation and range calculations are based on the specific characteristics of the OEM cell type from a decade ago. We're looking at more firmware adjustments, same tooling costs as before, custom sheet design and molds, and a redesigned enclosure to boot.

It all boils down to the size of the market. There aren't enough Roadsters to make the investment worthwhile. However, if we throw the Model S/X batteries into the mix, then the investment looks more promising.

 

[chrisro]

i am working on it. Hope soon I can test brand new battery. Be patient.

 

[X.l.r.8]

You would think that as the cost of lithium has dropped remarkably, they have the tooling, they would make stock batteries. $20k for a stock battery
$35k for a complete model 3
It seems financially viable.
I got my Roadster knowing at its best it would have 220 miles range, as did many others, an improvement is not always necessary but replacement is. If I got a McLaren I would be thinking, I need a bigger engine, or I wonder if I could fit a bigger gas tank. A direct replacement would be much simpler than reworking the PEM.

 

[dhrivnak]

You would think that as the cost of lithium has dropped remarkably, they have the tooling, they would make stock batteries. $20k for a stock battery
$35k for a complete model 3
It seems financially viable.
I got my Roadster knowing at its best it would have 220 miles range, as did many others, an improvement is not always necessary but replacement is. If I got a McLaren I would be thinking, I need a bigger engine, or I wonder if I could fit a bigger gas tank. A direct replacement would be much simpler than reworking the PEM.

One nice little bonus is the car is faster with the 3.0 battery. Less voltage sag means more power. I dropped a few tenths of a second and added 5 mph on my exit speed on the 1/4 mile.

 

[wycolo]

No More Roadster Battery Blues:

What is the voltage into Roadster 2.0 & 2.5 motor? My guess is about 75 volts 3 phase, but this is rarely discussed since normally one uses the attached inverter which operates at 350 to 400 vdc. And why wouldn't one use this inverter which is as bulletproof as the motor is itself. But the PEM is festooned with weaknesses and is tied to Tesla's proprietary OS. So rip that out and while you are at it discard the battery box contents as well (the monolithic 'sheets'). Keep the box as it might hold some of the Li-Ion segments you are collecting. Keep the 12v system in the Roadster as much as possible but plan on all new wiring system.

Install the donor car operating system as required. Or just get a new controller to run the stock inverter. This will need to be programmed to match the Tesla power unit to the full speed range of the car. With luck you will have some degree of traction control; if not it will be a full time hot rod. Finally the battery modules will have to be fitted into available space. Groceries may end up on the passenger seat and the hood may need a new profile but necessity will have been properly served.
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[neroden]

I'm thinking this is going to be one of these cases where an entirely new control system needs to be written. Happens a lot with software which isn't open source -- it has to be replaced from scratch. An open source EV power control system would be a useful project period. Would probably take several experts several years to create. You'd want to have modules for different batteries and motors and displays.

 

[X.l.r.8]

For the customer base of 6!! I don’t think other than a hobby anyone would put the time in. You could already fit a SDU and open inverter/charger/bms you have the cooling/heating system in place. There’s enough scrap cars to keep others running, to the point some are changing hands for the cost of a battery pack. I am doing something similar and it’s been done before. The reality is no one wants to give up on the battery but at some point it’s inevitable

 

[wycolo]

Well TM has been enjoying my $5k for the past year, i.e. this crowd of one is sourcing all kinds of heavy thinking at battery engineering headquarters. I just know they are knocking themselves out each and every day trying to squeeze in all the latest versions of 18650s into those monolithic sheets, not by hand, silly, but using robots!! More cobalt, less iron . . . or is it the reverse. The mind boggles!
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[Gremlin]

I’m recently in the market for a roadster and ideally I’d love to find one as early on as possible with all original parts (other than the battery).

I’ve come across a few that are in great shape but need new batteries. Is this as simple as a new battery or am I getting into a project that may end with a Roadster that doesn’t drive? Also, any idea on cost for a new battery?

Thank you!

I too have been looking. Gruber electronics offer refurbished battery with 1 year warranty for 19k. Charges to 172 miles at 80 percent charged. Someone in the Roadster 3.0 thread stated around October Tesla will bring back the battery upgrade .

Tesla 43TESROBAT for sale online | eBay

 

[jfischer]

The cost is $30,000, but the availability is 0. So yes unless it’s giveaway your in for a whole lot of heartache.

Interesting you note that price. Thats what i thought it was as well...

I was asking Houston North SC for a cost on FULL battery replacement and I got a SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER cost then I had thought or heard. It was 16K. Was trying to figure Actual Cash Value on a few cars so needed the cost of replacing the Battery, PEM ,etc up to what has been done in my 2.5. Hence the request for quotes on all those parts to add so its comparable to mine.



Here is the actual quote

 

[X.l.r.8]

Remanufactured is 16K CAD so I guess Its a dynamic number, but the 3.0 was 30k
16k CAD was the price for a stock battery for a 2.0 6 months ago. Brand new fitted. I didn’t see the sticker so I’m going to say it was a reman. I guess the price was at par which is weird. The tech was surprised how easy it was to get a battery so I am thinking it’s a lottery but still cheaper than trying to build one