Roadster on destination charging doesn't work outside of North America

[AEdennis]

Just curious... Does anyone know what the incompatibility is?

Wondering if @hcsharp can answer this again. I believe the new HPWC is 3 phase capable (or has a 3 phase unit out there)... But not sure if the blanket incompatibility of the new HPWC is for deployments ex-North America (where 3 phase is more commonly used.)

 

[ecarfan]

However, last week we purchased 2 new Wall Connectors in order to be able to share the 100 amp service between the two wall connectors for a MS, Roadster, and next year the M3 in our home garage. These are not yet installed.
Should I be concerned that the new Wall Connectors will not work like the old one to charge the Roadster?
If that is the case, is there a way to fix this?

I would certainly be concerned based on what @hcsharp posted upthread, he wrote:

There was a communications oversight within Tesla that resulted in the new destination chargers being incompatible with Roadsters. Tesla is now aware of the problem and is working on a solution. They haven't committed to a time frame for when it will be completed but they said they'd like to do it right away. Not all the new Destination chargers have this problem, but most of them do

As you can see, it is Tesla that has to "fix it". It is not clear to me whether the "fix" would be changing something in the HPWC or making a change to the Roadster firmware.

 

[ibcs]

I would certainly be concerned based on what @hcsharp posted upthread, he wrote:

As you can see, it is Tesla that has to "fix it". It is not clear to me whether the "fix" would be changing something in the HPWC or making a change to the Roadster firmware.

I just got one of the new chargers and it works fine on the Roadster using Henry's Can Sr. The HPWC is the new design. This is charging a 2.5 model #1196.

 

[AEdennis]

I just got one of the new chargers and it works fine on the Roadster using Henry's Can Sr. The HPWC is the new design. This is charging a 2.5 model #1196.

We should hopefully get my wife's 1.5 back from service this week. The replacement motor arrived today (after over a month at the service center.)

Once I get it home, I can test with CAN SR.

 

[ViviV]

I just got one of the new chargers and it works fine on the Roadster using Henry's Can Sr. The HPWC is the new design. This is charging a 2.5 model #1196.

Thank you. So this is the one that can have 2 WC share a single 100 amp service? So why are some people having problems or was this already resolved somehow by Tesla?

 

[AEdennis]

Ok... went back to the beginning of the thread and picked out relevant information...

European CAN SR... which is the whole three phase thing...

Sorry, I failed to recognize that you are using the European type 2 Tesla connector.

So your theory is that there is something different about the pilot signal uses in Europe in its HPWCs compared to the US and that makes them not compatible with Henry's SR CAN version for Europe?

Have other European users of Henry's SR CAN version for Europe reported this problem?

I know that there have been a few reports in the US that Henry's SR CAN didn't work with certain HPWCs in the US, but it seems to be rare.

The European Model Ss have 3 phase 22kW charging which means the Roadster would normally see one phase for 32A, 7kW.

However there was already a rumour that Tesla destination chargers were doing something non-standard in the handshake phase to exclude other cars and this seems to confirm it.

I've recently received another report that the Roadster won't charge from the EU destination chargers, but it charges just fine from the same charger sold for private home use. If they are limiting to Model S/X then I suspect it's a communication error at Tesla. I don't know for sure but I'll do my best to find out.

In North America there was communication from Tesla, including the Destination charging staff that they did not want to exclude Roadsters from the network. I can't help but wonder if something was overlooked in Europe because I seriously doubt it was their intention to exclude Roadsters.

@dpeilow, can you provide me with some information? Was that one of the new HPWCs that was just released in the last couple of months? It looks like it is but I can't tell for sure. When it fails, does the HPWC blink out an error code with its red LED? If so, what's the code (how many times does the light flash between pauses)? Thanks.

So, the US ines are probably fine...

Thank you. So this is the one that can have 2 WC share a single 100 amp service? So why are some people having problems or was this already resolved somehow by Tesla?

We're on one phase.

 

[ViviV]

Ok... went back to the beginning of the thread and picked out relevant information...

European CAN SR... which is the whole three phase thing...







So, the US ines are probably fine...



We're on one phase.

Thank you. That is what I thought in reading the thread initially then I became confused by some comments saying it was an issue in North America too. It is reassuring that some have posted that charging is working on the new WC in the USA. I will go ahead and install our new WC and if there is an issue I will report back.

 

[hcsharp]

Yes there is news on this. There was a communications oversight within Tesla that resulted in the new destination chargers being incompatible with Roadsters. Tesla is now aware of the problem and is working on a solution. They haven't committed to a time frame for when it will be completed but they said they'd like to do it right away. Not all the new Destination chargers have this problem, but most of them do.

You can tell if it's one of the new chargers if the cable connector has a place to be stored in the side of the HPWC. The older HPWCs, which are supposedly more Roadster friendly, store the connector in a separate plastic cable hanger.

This information applies to Destination chargers in all regions, including North America, Europe, Asia/HK, etc.

Many of you are assuming way too much. It's not as bad as you think. First, I want to say that the Destination Charging Team at Tesla have been very strong advocates for Roadster owners. They have made it clear that Roadsters were not intentionally locked out. Let me also clarify a few things, mostly already stated in my post above.

This is only an issue with some (most) of the new (installed since about April) Destination chargers. Not all new Destination chargers are affected. HPWCs sold for home or private use (non-Destination) are not affected as ibcs noticed. If you have a home-use HPWC or UMC and it doesn't work, Tesla has been replacing them with one that does work, although I'm not aware of any official policy.

Engineering resources at Tesla are working straight-out on some fairly urgent projects. I'm actually impressed that they are trying to fix this right away considering they have over 400,000 Model 3 reservations and only a few hundred Roadsters that actually want to use Destination chargers. I have faith that they are committed to fixing this as soon as they reasonably can. It was an unintentional oversight. They also expect to be able to repair or replace existing newly installed Destination chargers that aren't Roadster friendly.

As I stated in my previous post, this issue affects all regions, whether 3ph or single phase. It's not limited to Europe. It's a bigger problem there because Tesla only recently started installing Destination chargers so a higher percentage of them won't work.

Have some faith, and try to be patient.

 

[AEdennis]

We should hopefully get my wife's 1.5 back from service this week. The replacement motor arrived today (after over a month at the service center.)

Once I get it home, I can test with CAN SR.

Ok... My wife's Roadster came back home yesterday and I was hoping to drive it down more, but wasn't feeling well most of today, so it just sat in the garage as I just stayed home and got better.

IMG_20161113_000400 by Dennis Pascual, on Flickr

Figured to go ahead and charge it on the new HPWC that we received. It's at 56A and charges at 56A.

IMG_20161113_000408 by Dennis Pascual, on Flickr

The version on the side of the HPWC looks like 1050047-01-E or 1050067-01-E it's a little blurry.

IMG_20161113_000350 by Dennis Pascual, on Flickr

I actually shot a video and that can be viewed here.

VID_20161113_000235 by Dennis Pascual, on Flickr

 

[Botbldr45]

Checked the new Destionaion Charger at the Marriott in West Sedona AZ and guess what ....... ERROR!! Pilot signal error. It was put in over the summer and is the " wrap cord over the top kind ". There are two other Destination Chargers up here so I'm going to test them later when I go uptown.

For any new owners please remember you need Henry's Can2 to even try it.

 

[dhrivnak]

I have tried three destination chargers with success here in NE Tennessee.

 

[bonnie]

Many of you are assuming way too much. It's not as bad as you think. First, I want to say that the Destination Charging Team at Tesla have been very strong advocates for Roadster owners. They have made it clear that Roadsters were not intentionally locked out. Let me also clarify a few things, mostly already stated in my post above.

This is only an issue with some (most) of the new (installed since about April) Destination chargers. Not all new Destination chargers are affected. HPWCs sold for home or private use (non-Destination) are not affected as ibcs noticed. If you have a home-use HPWC or UMC and it doesn't work, Tesla has been replacing them with one that does work, although I'm not aware of any official policy.

Engineering resources at Tesla are working straight-out on some fairly urgent projects. I'm actually impressed that they are trying to fix this right away considering they have over 400,000 Model 3 reservations and only a few hundred Roadsters that actually want to use Destination chargers. I have faith that they are committed to fixing this as soon as they reasonably can. It was an unintentional oversight. They also expect to be able to repair or replace existing newly installed Destination chargers that aren't Roadster friendly.

As I stated in my previous post, this issue affects all regions, whether 3ph or single phase. It's not limited to Europe. It's a bigger problem there because Tesla only recently started installing Destination chargers so a higher percentage of them won't work.

Have some faith, and try to be patient.

Concur with Henry 100% on everything above.

 

[TRON]

And here the answer to all your questions. We got awesome support by Henry Sharp and learned our lessons on our last edition of 80edays going around the world with electric cars - well 1 Roadster, 8 Model S and two others - (check www.80edays.com for details).

There are two types of destination chargers installed in the world and only one is compatible to Roadsters.
The one, which is compatible to Roadsters is compatible to any other EV - sorry Tesla to unveil this secret - so after some EV owners got aware that charging being possible at the Tesla destination chargers they were blocked by ZOEs and others.
This wasn't the intention of Tesla. So they made a change and the new version of chargers and the ones which could be updated charged only if a handshake was detected. Well the Roadsters are not able to make this handshake so this update excluded them.

In the meantime a hotel can get a destination charger but if he asks Tesla to get one where other cars can charge it has to pay for it. So the result is that some hotels pay and some not and you have now some which are working on Roadsters and some not.
The destination chargers Tesla is giving for free the hotels have to sign that they will care of reserving them for Tesla cars only.
This information is being collected and published soon at www.electromaps.com

If you like what I'm doing, welcome to like 80edays | Facebook

 

[ecarfan]

This is only an issue with some (most) of the new (installed since about April) Destination chargers. Not all new Destination chargers are affected.

One data point: a Tesla Destination charger installed last fall in Willits CA works fine with my Roadster.

 

[gregd]

Ok, so that explains a lot. Thanks, @TRON!

One question: Is there an easy way to discover (other than by trying it) if a particular Tesla destination charger is Roadster-compatible? Given @ecarfan's experience, I presume (hope) that Tesla has updated their product to work with our cars, but I'd like to know if the code has been pushed to the destination charger I intend to use, before committing to depend on it.

This also appears to answer the question posted over in the general Electric Vehicles forum (Non tesla owners using tesla chargers.)... I was thinking that letting non-Tesla vehicles use the Tesla destination chargers would be in the spirit of Tesla's mission to advance the transition to EVs, but apparently they're not going quite that far.

 

[hcsharp]

Thank you Rafael (TRON) for additional explanation.

...One question: Is there an easy way to discover (other than by trying it) if a particular Tesla destination charger is Roadster-compatible? Given @ecarfan's experience, I presume (hope) that Tesla has updated their product to work with our cars, but I'd like to know if the code has been pushed to the destination charger I intend to use, before committing to depend on it.

Currently there is no way to know, but it's easy to guess based on other facts and circumstances. If it's one of the new Destination chargers (you can tell because it was installed since spring 2016 and the connector docks in the main body of the charger) then it most likely won't work. And like Rafael said, even a new charger will work if not part of the Destination network, OR the host paid for it. In many cases Tesla pays for 1 or 2, and the host pays for another one so at least one will work. Tesla has promised a solution for us that will allow use of existing (including newer) stations, but they have not promised a date of implementation. So the whole problem is temporary.

This also appears to answer the question posted over in the general Electric Vehicles forum (Non tesla owners using tesla chargers.)... I was thinking that letting non-Tesla vehicles use the Tesla destination chargers would be in the spirit of Tesla's mission to advance the transition to EVs, but apparently they're not going quite that far.

As I posted in that thread, it does not advance the transition to EVs if Tesla is the only automaker expanding the network. If there is no incentive for owners of other cars to pressure their manufacturers to contribute because they can just get a free ride from Tesla, then EV adoption will be slower in the long run.

 

[gregd]

As I posted in that thread, it does not advance the transition to EVs if Tesla is the only automaker expanding the network. If there is no incentive for owners of other cars to pressure their manufacturers to contribute because they can just get a free ride from Tesla, then EV adoption will be slower in the long run.

Excellent point, and one that appears to be very appropriate given GM's stated policy. That needs to change, and it won't if Tesla keeps bailing them and everyone else out. But it's going to be a hard sell. In light of this, I withdraw my comment. Tesla's doing the right thing here (but needs to fix the Roadster bug!), as ugly as it might be to do so.

 

[ecarfan]

In many cases Tesla pays for 1 or 2, and the host pays for another one so at least one will work.

In the case of the destination I referred to in my post just above (#34) that installed it's chargers last fall, Tesla provided, for free, both an HPWC and a Clipper Creek J1772. Both work fine with my Roadster.

 

[gregd]

In the case of the destination I referred to in my post just above (#34) that installed it's chargers last fall, Tesla provided, for free, both an HPWC and a Clipper Creek J1772. Both work fine with my Roadster.

Just curious, were both types of chargers offering the same current? I ask because I took a trip over to Petaluma, CA last fall, and charged there at what I think was a public lot. Hard to tell... It was next to one company I was visiting (Lagunitas Brewing, highly recommended), but I don't recall any signage suggesting it was a private lot. PlugShare implies it is Destination charging for the brewery, however.

Anyway, there were 6 slots; 3 charging posts, each with one Clipper Creek and one Tesla charger. The Tesla ones were higher current than the Clipper Creek. I got 40 amps vs I think 30-ish from the CC units, all at 200v. I wonder if the Tesla-supplied chargers consistently offer a higher charging current, or if that was just this particular install?

 

[ecarfan]

Just curious, were both types of chargers offering the same current?

See "The Old West Inn" The Old West Inn | Willits, CA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare