Roscosmos vs. SpaceX

[bxr140]

Tangentially related, and highlighting the most vulnerable weakness of the Amur concept IMHO, Rogozin is in the news again playing it up for his Oligarch puppeteers.

Also marginally related, Russia (and Jai-nuh) are notably absent from the Artemis Accords. Certainly the accords are USA centric, but hopefully everyone will take it easy with the hubris over the next few months and years and come to some kind of...uh...accord. Russia really just wants to be recognized at this point as an equal; IMHO just throw them a bone already. Everyone likes a global superpower that doesn't always have to act like a global superpower.

The whole China thing is a bit disappointing though. Congress essentially banned NASA collaboration with China a while ago, and the current administration's near perfect record of anti-American policies over the past few years have all but ensured that things are going to get way worse with China before they possibly get any better, including in space.

 

[Electroman]

ensured that things are going to get way worse with China

And thats a bad thing? Let China work a little harder to steal technology. Partnership just makes it easy.

 

[bxr140]

And thats a bad thing? Let China work a little harder to steal technology. Partnership just makes it easy.

I prefer a high road based keep your enemies closer approach to sociopolitical matters.

I believe global stewardship of space exploration is imperative, especially human exploration, and explicitly at the expense of national/state interests. That concept is incompatible with our current relationship and rhetoric with China, and as we've seen paralleled within the US over the past four years (in other words, this isn't just hyperbole), purposely divisive and spiteful policies don't just dissolve the space for common ground and stagnate a relationship, they sow deep seeded resentment that devolves that relationship.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I prefer a high road based keep your enemies closer approach to sociopolitical matters.

I believe global stewardship of space exploration is imperative, especially human exploration, and explicitly at the expense of national/state interests. That concept is incompatible with our current relationship and rhetoric with China, and as we've seen paralleled within the US over the past four years (in other words, this isn't just hyperbole), purposely divisive and spiteful policies don't just dissolve the space for common ground and stagnate a relationship, they sow deep seeded resentment that devolves that relationship.

That's all very nice in theory but space technologies are also weapons technologies. China and Russia are military adversaries to the US.

 

[bxr140]

That's all very nice in theory but space technologies are also weapons technologies. China and Russia are military adversaries to the US.

And yet, there's clearly plenty of collaboration between the US and Russia, and certainly non-zero collaboration with China as well, notably regarding ISS. Its unfortunate that the obvious must be stated here, but not everything has to be binary; not all space technologies are weapons technologies. Hell, we recently went through a whole thing derating a bunch of space *sugar* from ITAR to EAR specifically because its stupid to consider any American space thing a 'defense article'. Of course, even before that sensible policy evolution there was plenty of space collaboration with foreign entities, Russia included.

Collaborating on human space exploration in no way has to expose sensitive technology in a way that threatens national security. Conversely, finding common ground is always the most efficient way to building/repairing relationships. And any honest citizen of the world will agree that China and the USA could use some more common ground right now...

 

[Electroman]

And any honest citizen of the world will agree that China and the USA could use some more common ground right now...

I don't see any honesty coming from China across all levels, when it comes to observing any patent rules and blatant stealing of IP. It is one thing to steal defense technology, and whole another thing to steal code from Cisco routers - aided and abetted by Chinese immigrants. Ask Musk and the AP code that now runs in Xpeng.

You cannot and should not look for common ground with an entity that has total disregard to any international rules, laws or policies.

 

[Electroman]

I don't see any honesty coming from China across all levels, when it comes to observing any patent rules and blatant stealing of IP. It is one thing to steal defense technology, and whole another thing to steal code from Cisco routers - aided and abetted by Chinese immigrants. Ask Musk and the AP code that now runs in Xpeng.

You cannot and should not look for common ground with an entity that has total disregard to any international rules, laws or policies.

@bxr140
.. and there is nothing funny about it. It is this turning the blind eye to China's theft from our universities, manufacturing and R&D is going to be the biggest failures of American policy, which will bring the next cold war.