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Rotate tires during this time?
- Thread starter vickh
- Start date
no need. waste of time and money, and now risk.
I know people disagree, but not based on any evidence. Looking at:
Each tire position may wear slightly differently. The tire wears into its position such that the contact patch becomes its widest. When it's at its widest, the rate of wear reaches a minimum. Rotate the tires and the contact patch is no longer optimum. The tire has to wear into its new position all over again. Until it does so, your stability at the limit is slightly off and your emergency handling is slightly compromised. After a rotation the tire wears into its new position, the contact patch is narrow, the contact pressure is elevated, and the tire wears more quickly. That is BMW's theory.
Better to not rotate and be better able to see evidence of any alignment issues, and stop wasting the Tesla techs time in the likely false fantasy that you are getting couple extra miles out of your tires.
BMW (and volvo and mini) says don't rotate. I trust the top german engineers relentlessly focused on handling and safety rather than tire mfrs focused on selling tires and avoiding warranty claims. (and service places interested to get you in on a regular basis to do a cheap service, and then upsell you various other service items that they newly identify/cause/lie about.
Use winter tires if you have seasons, and let that tire swap be a rotation event but otherwise I say trust the German bmw, Swedish (orwhereever now) Volvo, and Boston Cartalk experts on this one. Don't rotate the tires
From Volvo Service Manager Bulletin
Tire Rotation
As suspensions and drive trains evolve, so do vehicle manufacturer recommendations for tire rotation.
Volvo's recommendations have always had a technical basis, while leaving some latitude for customer
preference.Presently, for current models, Volvo has no recommended tire rotation. Because this represents an evolutionary policy, customers may need the guidance of a Volvo service advisor to help them understand the performance and handling tradeoffs that come with tire rotation.
Benefit of Tire Rotation
On a front-wheel drive car, the demands placed on the front wheels during acceleration and cornering
can mean a dramatic difference between front and rear tire tread wear. Without periodic tire rotation
front-to-rear, the front tires will typically require replacement sooner. The primary perceived benefit of tire rotation is that front and rear tires will wear down at about the same average rate. In absolute terms, four tires will not last any longer this way. It becomes a customer choice between replacing two tires sooner and replacing all four tires later. However, with all current Volvo models, Volvo believes that numerous technical, performance, and handling benefits outweigh any perceived benefit of tire rotation. Following are some of those benefits.
Benefits of Not Rotating Tires
Braking Stability Performance
During hard braking, braking on a slippery road, or braking in a curve, good rear tire tread may help you avoid oversteer. Oversteer is when a turning vehicle wants to keep turning because of momentum and dynamic forces on the vehicle suspension. Volvo stability systems are all designed toward reducing or helping a driver avoid oversteer. Still, all things being equal, having more rear tire tread can contribute to reduced oversteer. Without rotation, the rear tires will naturally wear more slowly and have more tread.
Tread Set
As tires age, the tread adopts an angular set, based on its angle to the road surface. For vehicle handling reasons, front and rear tread angle is not the same. If tires are rotated, the tread will eventually set at an angle somewhere between what is optimal for a front or rear tire. Although vehicle ride, handling, and road noise may still be acceptable, they may not be optimal. Additionally, an infrequently or irregularly rotated tire may result in tire noise, faster tire wear, and unpleasant changes in steering feel and vehicle handling.
Driving Performance
A tire that can fully adapt to its position will generally provide better steering feel, lower tire noise, and better fuel economy.
Suspension Wear Diagnostics
Every vehicle's suspension needs periodic inspection and maintenance. A tire's tread wear pattern can be an aid in detecting and diagnosing a suspension problem. Each tire, if left in place, tells a story about its place in the suspension. Tire rotation, on the other hand, can mask a developing problem. Early detection is very important, because suspension problem can worsen tire wear, and reduce vehicle performance, handling, stability, and fuel economy.
BMW says to not rotate my tires, but the tire manufacturere says different. Who should I believe?
I know people disagree, but not based on any evidence. Looking at:
- lack of evidence of any benefit
- authorities like BMW, Volvo and CarTalk guys confirming no benefit
- reading good theoretical hypothesis
Each tire position may wear slightly differently. The tire wears into its position such that the contact patch becomes its widest. When it's at its widest, the rate of wear reaches a minimum. Rotate the tires and the contact patch is no longer optimum. The tire has to wear into its new position all over again. Until it does so, your stability at the limit is slightly off and your emergency handling is slightly compromised. After a rotation the tire wears into its new position, the contact patch is narrow, the contact pressure is elevated, and the tire wears more quickly. That is BMW's theory.
Better to not rotate and be better able to see evidence of any alignment issues, and stop wasting the Tesla techs time in the likely false fantasy that you are getting couple extra miles out of your tires.
BMW (and volvo and mini) says don't rotate. I trust the top german engineers relentlessly focused on handling and safety rather than tire mfrs focused on selling tires and avoiding warranty claims. (and service places interested to get you in on a regular basis to do a cheap service, and then upsell you various other service items that they newly identify/cause/lie about.
Use winter tires if you have seasons, and let that tire swap be a rotation event but otherwise I say trust the German bmw, Swedish (orwhereever now) Volvo, and Boston Cartalk experts on this one. Don't rotate the tires
From Volvo Service Manager Bulletin
Tire Rotation
As suspensions and drive trains evolve, so do vehicle manufacturer recommendations for tire rotation.
Volvo's recommendations have always had a technical basis, while leaving some latitude for customer
preference.Presently, for current models, Volvo has no recommended tire rotation. Because this represents an evolutionary policy, customers may need the guidance of a Volvo service advisor to help them understand the performance and handling tradeoffs that come with tire rotation.
Benefit of Tire Rotation
On a front-wheel drive car, the demands placed on the front wheels during acceleration and cornering
can mean a dramatic difference between front and rear tire tread wear. Without periodic tire rotation
front-to-rear, the front tires will typically require replacement sooner. The primary perceived benefit of tire rotation is that front and rear tires will wear down at about the same average rate. In absolute terms, four tires will not last any longer this way. It becomes a customer choice between replacing two tires sooner and replacing all four tires later. However, with all current Volvo models, Volvo believes that numerous technical, performance, and handling benefits outweigh any perceived benefit of tire rotation. Following are some of those benefits.
Benefits of Not Rotating Tires
Braking Stability Performance
During hard braking, braking on a slippery road, or braking in a curve, good rear tire tread may help you avoid oversteer. Oversteer is when a turning vehicle wants to keep turning because of momentum and dynamic forces on the vehicle suspension. Volvo stability systems are all designed toward reducing or helping a driver avoid oversteer. Still, all things being equal, having more rear tire tread can contribute to reduced oversteer. Without rotation, the rear tires will naturally wear more slowly and have more tread.
Tread Set
As tires age, the tread adopts an angular set, based on its angle to the road surface. For vehicle handling reasons, front and rear tread angle is not the same. If tires are rotated, the tread will eventually set at an angle somewhere between what is optimal for a front or rear tire. Although vehicle ride, handling, and road noise may still be acceptable, they may not be optimal. Additionally, an infrequently or irregularly rotated tire may result in tire noise, faster tire wear, and unpleasant changes in steering feel and vehicle handling.
Driving Performance
A tire that can fully adapt to its position will generally provide better steering feel, lower tire noise, and better fuel economy.
Suspension Wear Diagnostics
Every vehicle's suspension needs periodic inspection and maintenance. A tire's tread wear pattern can be an aid in detecting and diagnosing a suspension problem. Each tire, if left in place, tells a story about its place in the suspension. Tire rotation, on the other hand, can mask a developing problem. Early detection is very important, because suspension problem can worsen tire wear, and reduce vehicle performance, handling, stability, and fuel economy.
BMW says to not rotate my tires, but the tire manufacturere says different. Who should I believe?
Last edited:
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
Have the tires rotated whenever you have them balanced. Rotation is free at that point since the tires are already off the car.
Balancing is recommended periodically to make sure you don't get annoying vibrations at highway speeds. Every 5,000 - 7,500 miles is the value recommended by most auto and tire manufacturers.
I have followed Tesla recommendation from Model 3 Owner's Manual, Page 165 (https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/model_3_owners_manual_north_america_en.pdf):
Tire Rotation, Balance, and Wheel Alignment
Tesla recommends rotating the tires every 10,000-12,000 miles (16,000-20,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater. Unbalanced wheels (sometimes noticeable as vibration through the steering wheel) affect vehicle handling and tire life. Even with regular use, wheels can get out of balance. Therefore, they should be balanced as required. If tire wear is uneven (on one side of the tire only) or becomes abnormally excessive, check the alignment of wheels.
I did this at around ~11k miles (Mid-Range, RWD, 19" wheels). Front tires were at 9/32, and rear tires were at 5/32 before rotation. Rotated at Discount Tire, they did both tire rotation and balancing for free, and I didn't buy anything from them. Would certainly recommend.
Tire Rotation, Balance, and Wheel Alignment
Tesla recommends rotating the tires every 10,000-12,000 miles (16,000-20,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater. Unbalanced wheels (sometimes noticeable as vibration through the steering wheel) affect vehicle handling and tire life. Even with regular use, wheels can get out of balance. Therefore, they should be balanced as required. If tire wear is uneven (on one side of the tire only) or becomes abnormally excessive, check the alignment of wheels.
I did this at around ~11k miles (Mid-Range, RWD, 19" wheels). Front tires were at 9/32, and rear tires were at 5/32 before rotation. Rotated at Discount Tire, they did both tire rotation and balancing for free, and I didn't buy anything from them. Would certainly recommend.
thx for great replies. Front tires were at 7/32, and rear tires were at 5/32. I guess balancing is key since I do have some vibrations/rough ride at 70+MPH.
BTW Discount Tire is not tire rotation and balancing for now
so I'll wait . Also they said no pucks so I'm going to call around to see or borrow. Does the S need pucks too?
Another factor is warranty. They said it wouldn't impact the warranty since they try to be flexible. I believe in another thread they said Michelin stopped OEM warranties anyway.
BTW Discount Tire is not tire rotation and balancing for now
so I'll wait . Also they said no pucks so I'm going to call around to see or borrow. Does the S need pucks too?Another factor is warranty. They said it wouldn't impact the warranty since they try to be flexible. I believe in another thread they said Michelin stopped OEM warranties anyway.
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Easy question to answer if you do your own measurements of tire wear. Remember to measure in 3 places: inside, middle, and outside of the tread, as fronts vs. rears show different wear patterns!
If you rears are worn off more than the fronts (true for all RWD cars) - the answer is obvious YES.
If they are not, then no need. Unless you feel like it
That's it.
Balancing is key to evening out tire wear.
The reason that is important is so that all four corners of the car maintain equal traction in the rain/snow.
Also, it helps when you go shopping for a new set of tires, since new tire models are released all the time (sometimes annually), and shopping for old models can become tricky, and needless expensive.
Yes, they have.
HTH,
a
I try to follow something close to what the owner's manual and the OEM tire manufacturer recommends. I rotate the tires myself so all it costs is just about 30-45 minutes of my time twice a year.
One thing to consider is that some recommendations may not always be based on performance/wear/longevity, etc. If a car manufacturer offers free maintenance, the, or one of the reasons they might not recommend rotations is to save $.
One thing to consider is that some recommendations may not always be based on performance/wear/longevity, etc. If a car manufacturer offers free maintenance, the, or one of the reasons they might not recommend rotations is to save $.
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PianoAl
Active Member
No. Wait 6 months and see what's happening with the virus. You'll probably be driving less, anyway.
Easy decision.
XLR82XS
D M C
FWIW mobile service came out today and did a N/C tire rotation on the 2020. 8,xxx miles. I see all that s**t posted above but I figured why not since the ranger is already out and I'm basing my decision on the owners manual tire rotation schedule.
On my SR, I rotated the tires around 8000 miles. I accelerate hard but I corner slowly.
Very true.
To my surprise, it is also true on AWD cars. When I switched from winters back to summer Pilot Sport 4S's, I had measured the tread depth on old and new sets of wheels. In both cases, rears were down 1-2/32nds on the fronts.
4S's with more tread depth went to the rear, to even out the wear.
With 5.7K miles on 4S's in 2019, they were down to 5/32nds on one (rear) pair, and 6/32nds on the other (front) pair.
I will be lucky to get another full year out of them, before aquaplaning becomes an issue.
SalisburySam
Active Member
I haven’t been a big tire rotator for any of my previous cars but with the Model 3 I thought I’d adhere to whatever practices Tesla thought apropos and published in their Owners’ Manual. So at 6,250 miles I took my July 2018 LR RWD Model 3 to the nearest Service Center and received a goodwill (no charge) tire rotation and a frunk latch adjustment that was on some sort of service bulletin. Then around twice that mileage I scheduled a mobile visit for cabin air filter replacements and tire rotation. The technician measured tread depth on all four corners and said newer guidance on rotations was to do so on an “as needed” basis only wherein tread depths varied by more than 2/32”. Mine were all the same so the technician suggested I skip the rotation and I did.
Then the new manual update appeared, returning the 6250-mile rotation requirement. At this point, at just over 14,000 miles, I think I’ll go back to Plan A: takes rotations off life’s ToDo list. Since there is this much discussion on the topic with logical-sounding arguments on both sides, I conclude that for me it just doesn’t really matter all that much. And with this extra time I can recount my COVID-19 mask inventory with my 2nd cuppa this morning. Wow, that feels so much better now.
Then the new manual update appeared, returning the 6250-mile rotation requirement. At this point, at just over 14,000 miles, I think I’ll go back to Plan A: takes rotations off life’s ToDo list. Since there is this much discussion on the topic with logical-sounding arguments on both sides, I conclude that for me it just doesn’t really matter all that much. And with this extra time I can recount my COVID-19 mask inventory with my 2nd cuppa this morning. Wow, that feels so much better now.
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