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Rumor summary: Blind-spot cameras, Rain sensing, Level 3, Big battery, Interior/HUD

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Those pedals are definitely intriguing. I'm anxious to learn about them.

True. That said, I personally thought the CGI pedals may have been just placeholders in the image and not really a part of the design ending up in the car.

A Tesla short seller came up with that interior concept. ;)

While you are joking, a serious comment: I do find it intriguing that a highly pro-Tesla voice Fred/Electrek got and published this alleged leak. I wonder if it was leaked to allay fears than an update was imminent.

Someone also mentioned (I did not check) that the style of this image is same/similar to an earlier Model 3 CGI leak that turned out to be true. Who knows.

I read there will be an instrument cluster, just reduced which would eliminate the need for a HUD since it would likely have the things a HUD normally has, other than maybe navigation turns.

True. Electrek posts an image of the alleged new instrument cluster in the leak above - seems smaller/simpler than Model S/X now... Reminding me a little of the minimal IC screen on the new Roadster? Though obviously bigger, could be telling of a design direction involving minimizing the IC?

Tesla-Model-SX-design-refresh-electrek-3.jpg


That said, my speculation has been about a large augmented reality HUD, benefits of which would still exceed an instrument cluster screen...

I made this concept image earlier...

hud-jpg.267636


There are several AR HUD projects in the industry and I speculated the original "spaceship controls" comment from Elon may have referred to such plans. If so, it is of course unknown if the plans were/are still active or relevant.

As for the vertical vs. horizontal big screen, the leaked/alleged design refresh could easily fit a Roadster style curving screen as well - perhaps arching over the center console. Who knows if Tesla is still toying with these different ideas.
 
Speculation and leak-gathering is a never-ending game. Things can change on a dime internally, so you can never be sure even when you get a credible leak. But it is fun (for some) and can improve your odds for making informed purchases. I mean, companies like Tesla will never tell you beforehand (many car makers do, though). So sleuthing is the thing we've got.

We've disagreed on some topics but wanted to say thank you for your work in the area that you reference above. I've been fortunate to time good purchases but if I was ever on the fence about anything I'd want to consult you.

I think now that Tesla has done production runs in the hundred of thousands, it will be much more difficult for them to make changes as much they do as they would alienate huge swaths of people.

My prediction was AP2.5 hardware was going to need to be fixed for the next couple years due to the rollouts to the Model 3.

At the same time, I also suspected a way to solve the difficulty of overcoming LIDAR and making autonomy come faster is to throw raw computing power at the problem.

Tesla either planned very well or was lucky they can perform the AP3 swap without losing money that they couldn't afford to lose.

I took delivery of my P3 the day after the conference call but it did cross my mind for a second to not do it because I didn't want to miss out on AP3. Amazing of Tesla to openly discuss it and not osborne themselves or piss off owners.
 
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Thank you @MXWing. I really appreciate the comment. Let what unites us be bigger than what separates us, or something to that effect. :)

That said, I am not immune to following things less now that I have had my Model X for over a year and am not immediately rushing to buy a new one. I may miss a few beats every now and then, but I try to keep up!

One thing that intrigues me about the Electrek leak interior images is that the two main images do not show the instrument cluster seen in the third image (above, the one without a steering wheel shown). I wonder if Tesla has been toying with leaving out the IC from Model S/X as well? A HUD could then be a natural replacement...

But IF things are still a year away, many many things can of course change still and may remain undecided.

I do question the year away part, though. It wouldn't surprise me if Tesla wants to spring this on people sooner. First half 2019? Maybe together with AP3 hardware (think things like interior camera being included in the new interior, maybe the hardware is needed to drive the HUD too if it comes). We shall see. :)
 
A short update, for those following the Tesla rumor mill.

It has been an interesting year from the Tesla rumor-watch perspective. It almost makes 2015-2017 seem predictable by comparison. Clearly some of the software side has appeared as rumoured/expected: we got the AP2 auto-wipers (as bad as they IMO are), we got a glimpse of EAP in the form of Drive on Nav and V9 brought us the blind-spot detection speculated earlier on this thread. So check on points 1. and 2. from post #1. :)

The rest has been more unexpected, though. Clearly the Model 3 ramp-up has thrown such a curve-ball that the rumour mill has gone almost eerily silent on any of the usual interior and exterior update rumours for Model S/X. Model 3 European launch is probably approaching, so that might give us answers on things like CCS support for Europe - is it or is it not happening (point 7 in post #32) - and of course there is the Electrek rumor of Model S/X interior refresh in Q3 2019. Is it really that far away? Who knows, perhaps not even Tesla? Might depend on the Model 3 ramp-up success, keeping Model S/X simple until then...

Or we might see significant changes in Q1, as a demand-lever after exhausting the full U.S. incentives. There just isn't data at this time to speculate on. We shall see what happens. :) I summarized some of my latest thinking on some of this stuff, especially from the point of view of feature retrofittability on the Model 3 forum in these three lenghty posts:

US Federal $7,500 Electric Vehicle Credit Expiry Date By Automaker #586
US Federal $7,500 Electric Vehicle Credit Expiry Date By Automaker #591
US Federal $7,500 Electric Vehicle Credit Expiry Date By Automaker #594

Take care!
 
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There are two or three bits of recent news that have gotten me wondering about the imminent future of FSD features on Teslas:
  • V9 rumouredly maxing out on Drive on Nav, which is what EAP is - and this without e.g. traffic-sign recognition. EAP also now uses eight cameras, not just four. This does not bode well for adding FSD differentiating features on current HW. It seems possible EAP is all we get without an AP computer swap. Neural Networks #509
  • Tesla stopping FSD sales for new cars this week. What is the incentive for Tesla to launch FSD differentiating features if they are not selling this feature currently? Tesla's track-record of support for features that are not currently shipping in new cars is fairly low. They seem to usually do the bare minimum, if that for "obsoleted hardware". Tesla removes Full Self-Driving (FSD) option from Design Studio
  • Recent announcement that AP3 computer with Tesla's own chip is 6+ months into the future and retrofitting of that to current AP2/2.5 cars with FSD option. AP3 Computer to be in production cars in ~ 6 months from now. Free for FSD owners.
When I selected FSD for my Model X back in 2016, I didn't do it because I expected "coast to coast" autonomous rides in my car anytime soon. But I did do it because I expected constant progress on autonomy features, beyond what selecting EAP would get me. Today none of that has materialized, though V9 will at least finally use all eight cameras (once it is released to Europe). Interestingly Tesla still refers to EAP as four cameras in today's Design Studio for Model S/X.

My personal guess is that stopping FSD sales is mostly liability limitation, now that they seem certain they will need to do computer retrofits. It does not necessarily tell too much, one way or another, of their inhouse progress.

But what I'm concerned about is the fact that I don't really see a timeline or a clear path in the near future for those FSD differentiating features. HW3 hardware retrofits seem a long way into the future, even if the hardware starts shipping in "6+ months". P100D retrofits took a year or more before they started for those who bought them... and especially AP2 HW seems maxed out (won't even run the dashcam).

The FSD differentiating features was stuff we were supposed to see 3-6 months from January 2017... that was April to July, 2017...

HW3 will eventually deliver a new platform for Tesla to continue their development work, which makes sense looking at their development method, but before the fleet retrofit, what will be their incentive to start offering FSD differentiating features what older cars can't get until upgraded? If they can release something that sells new cars, then perhaps those get something, but it seems iffier especially for older cars.

Finally, V9 (delayed Drive on Nav and overall NN performance) has not been so very impressive according to reports, which might also suggest Tesla really has their work cut out for them autonomy-wise... to the extent that actual Level 3 (hands and eyes off road) on AP2/2.5 seems more like a pipedream now than something to look forward to soon, though Level 2 EAP seems a bit closer of course seeing Drive on Nav...
3. Level 3 in AP2/2.5 cars. What we first jokingly said was Tesla trolling @verygreen, it seems the Level 3 status on AP2 firmware isn't going away. FWIW, there is now a Level 3 "on or off" status inside AP2 firmware, see e.g. here and here. There is also a "follow-nav-route-enabled" there, suggesting progress on the freeway-to-freeway transitioning (again promised for EAP, expected December 2016).

So, it seems possible to me that any FSD differentiating features are even further into the future than they seemed to be before the latest round of news. Especially for older AP2+ cars. I am somewhat downgrading my already meager expectations on when I might see FSD differentiating features on my car. I hope I am wrong. (A few more personal musings on this timeline here: Firmware 9 in August will start rolling out full self-driving features!!! #1458)

We shall see. Take care! :)
 
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Tesla may be starting to figure out that level 5 automation may be unachievable with any system operating within the existing world's streets and highways. I have a fair bit of experience with embedded software and I can see a high level 3, possibly something resembling level 4 being possible, but I don't think that eliminating a driver that needs to pay attention is going to be happen without a lot of infrastructure investment outside the vehicles and/or a protocol for vehicles to talk to one another.

Commercial aircraft have basically hit the wall with automation at high level 3. 99% of the time airliners can do everything without the pilots' input, but edge cases are too unpredictable.

With cars, the edge cases are many more than what commercial aircraft face.
 
I can see a high level 3, possibly something resembling level 4 being possible, but I don't think that eliminating a driver that needs to pay attention is going to be happen without a lot of infrastructure investment outside the vehicles and/or a protocol for vehicles to talk to one another.

Commercial aircraft have basically hit the wall with automation at high level 3. 99% of the time airliners can do everything without the pilots' input, but edge cases are too unpredictable.

With cars, the edge cases are many more than what commercial aircraft face.
But level 3 *is* eliminating a driver that needs to pay attention... Level 3 requires the driver to be awake and conscious, yes, but not that he's paying any attention. He can read, work, socialize, whatever he wants. Except go to sleep. He's only required to take over if the car prompts him to, and the car must give him a few seconds warning first. I.e. a controlled handover.

I will be *extremely* surprised, to say the least, if Tesla ever releases a true level 3 system OTA with their current sensor- and driver monitor system, at least on anything else than certain US highways ...

But who knows. I like a surprise :)
 
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But level 3 *is* eliminating a driver that needs to pay attention... Level 3 requires the driver to be awake and conscious, yes, but not that he's paying any attention. He can read, work, socialize, whatever he wants. Except go to sleep. He's only required to take over if the car prompts him to, and the car must give him a few seconds warning first. I.e. a controlled handover.

I will be *extremely* surprised, to say the least, if Tesla ever releases a true level 3 system OTA with their current sensor- and driver monitor system, at least on anything else than certain US highways ...

But who knows. I like a surprise :)

You do know that people treat current AP like it's L3 and most don't die. Other than firetrucks, they seem to somehow escape crashing.

I'm betting on L4 highways.
 
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Tesla may be starting to figure out that level 5 automation may be unachievable with any system operating within the existing world's streets and highways. I have a fair bit of experience with embedded software and I can see a high level 3, possibly something resembling level 4 being possible, but I don't think that eliminating a driver that needs to pay attention is going to be happen without a lot of infrastructure investment outside the vehicles and/or a protocol for vehicles to talk to one another.

Commercial aircraft have basically hit the wall with automation at high level 3. 99% of the time airliners can do everything without the pilots' input, but edge cases are too unpredictable.

With cars, the edge cases are many more than what commercial aircraft face.
The incremental changes in Air Craft automation are largely slowed by legal forces and cost constraints not technical. The plane I fly now has 1990's technology. Some new stuff is coming with ADSB with in/out tech but hell I flew a AC with auto-land 15 years ago. The tech is there to have a plane do everything and if we look at the accidents in the last 15 years they are all caused by the humans at the controls. (Of course we don't hear about the accidents that did not happen because of the humans that intervened) I fly in KLGA (NY Laguardia on a regular basis and the plane will turn the wrong was while on AP when joining the localizer to runway 22 about 20% of the time. Now it is not really going the wrong way but the algorithm to determine turn rate is kinda wonky so it is trying to bracket the course...the Air traffic controllers don't like this so we take over and once locked on course it is fine. I am sure that new tech is probably better at this..but it cost a lot of money to change existing planes.

I think we will probably see complete autonomous planes carrying people before I start to push up daisy's.

I do agree the edge cases for car's are dramatically tougher. So maybe level 3 in 90 percent of road areas that are Geo fenced off?
 
The incremental changes in Air Craft automation are largely slowed by legal forces and cost constraints not technical. The plane I fly now has 1990's technology. Some new stuff is coming with ADSB with in/out tech but hell I flew a AC with auto-land 15 years ago. The tech is there to have a plane do everything and if we look at the accidents in the last 15 years they are all caused by the humans at the controls. (Of course we don't hear about the accidents that did not happen because of the humans that intervened) I fly in KLGA (NY Laguardia on a regular basis and the plane will turn the wrong was while on AP when joining the localizer to runway 22 about 20% of the time. Now it is not really going the wrong way but the algorithm to determine turn rate is kinda wonky so it is trying to bracket the course...the Air traffic controllers don't like this so we take over and once locked on course it is fine. I am sure that new tech is probably better at this..but it cost a lot of money to change existing planes.

I think we will probably see complete autonomous planes carrying people before I start to push up daisy's.

I do agree the edge cases for car's are dramatically tougher. So maybe level 3 in 90 percent of road areas that are Geo fenced off?

Disclaimer - not a pilot but have been an air medical crewmember for about 10 years so I'm an informed neophyte when it comes to aviation things but I will defer to pilots on this stuff

Building on what @Unpilot said above, it seems like the aircraft autonomous function problem while not easy is still inherently easier than the car one. Yes, there are some very real challenges you only get with aircraft - 3 dimensions, weather much more of an issue, you can't just tell the plane to pull over if system can't figure out what to do, the risk of screwing up is potentially quite a bit more loss of life and/or property, etc. But it seems like the two biggest complicating factors for fully autonomous car operations are the other drivers and the lack of control over the roads. (By that I mean that changes can happen to a road at any point and without needing approval from the feds, also a big pothole can appear, road debris can appear, etc.) Those factors are far more controlled in the aviation environment.

Hands off and eyes off autonomous car operations seem likely to happen in the near future only in controlled settings - special lanes that are sectioned off from normal travel lanes and include only vehicles that have similar autonomous features. This infrastructure opens up lots of possibilities like communications between cars to coordinate maneuvers and that could allow for more efficient traffic movements. I can see congested areas attracted to invest to implement these features on highways because it can create highways that move more vehicles more safely and that creates savings in a variety of ways.

While level 4 and 5 automation would be great - what I want most is to have the car be able to make reasonable interventions to mitigate or even prevent a serious incident if I'm distracted or fall asleep at the wheel or make a really bad decision. I'd also want the car to monitor my attention level to try to mitigate things before it had to intervene. I'm fine with the assumption for now that I'm operating the vehicle. This is like an intelligent risk averse copilot. That is basically level 3 (with some fine points of difference). It puts the emphasis on safety and not as much on convenience feature.

Regardless of what Tesla has said they can do, that is what I want my car to be able to do.
 
But level 3 *is* eliminating a driver that needs to pay attention... Level 3 requires the driver to be awake and conscious, yes, but not that he's paying any attention. He can read, work, socialize, whatever he wants. Except go to sleep. He's only required to take over if the car prompts him to, and the car must give him a few seconds warning first. I.e. a controlled handover.

I will be *extremely* surprised, to say the least, if Tesla ever releases a true level 3 system OTA with their current sensor- and driver monitor system, at least on anything else than certain US highways ...

But who knows. I like a surprise :)

Before writing I referenced the Wikipedia article and the definition of 3, 4, and 5 was a bit vague. I do think Level 4 will be achievable on restricted access roads like highways, but I just don't see it on city streets, there are too many things that can go wrong.

The incremental changes in Air Craft automation are largely slowed by legal forces and cost constraints not technical. The plane I fly now has 1990's technology. Some new stuff is coming with ADSB with in/out tech but hell I flew a AC with auto-land 15 years ago. The tech is there to have a plane do everything and if we look at the accidents in the last 15 years they are all caused by the humans at the controls. (Of course we don't hear about the accidents that did not happen because of the humans that intervened) I fly in KLGA (NY Laguardia on a regular basis and the plane will turn the wrong was while on AP when joining the localizer to runway 22 about 20% of the time. Now it is not really going the wrong way but the algorithm to determine turn rate is kinda wonky so it is trying to bracket the course...the Air traffic controllers don't like this so we take over and once locked on course it is fine. I am sure that new tech is probably better at this..but it cost a lot of money to change existing planes.

I think we will probably see complete autonomous planes carrying people before I start to push up daisy's.

I do agree the edge cases for car's are dramatically tougher. So maybe level 3 in 90 percent of road areas that are Geo fenced off?

I was at Boeing in a group that did engineering testing on the LRUs for commercial aircraft from 1987 to 1994. I worked on the ARINC interface hardware. I remember when TCAS came along and I was there through most of the 777 testing. The first few planes were in flight test when I left. My last day I snuck onto airframe 1 when it was parked across the street from my lab and looked around when everyone was at lunch. The only time I've been on a 777.

We had flight deck simulators used for laying out the instruments and to get user feedback on the designs. There was a joke that the next gen flight deck would have one pilot and a dog. The pilot's job was to feed the dog and the dog's job was to bite the pilot if they touched anything. I had a feel for the tech available in 1990 and that design was actually technically possible, but the FAA would have gone into fits if anyone suggested it.

The regulatory agencies are understandably very conservative. I was one of the lucky engineers at Boeing who was actually designing and making something. Most sit around doing probability studies to meet FAA requirements. I had a friend in the engine group on the 777, he said the FAA was requiring they include armor plate on the inside of the engine nacelles because they couldn't prove that the likelihood of a fan burst going through the entire plane and taking out the engine on the other side was improbable enough. It has never happened in the history of commercial aviation (though it did happen to a small twin engine Cessna once and it was a prop blade from the #2 engine taking out the #1 engine).

The FAA also has fits if AP gets something wrong. The entire 747-400 fleet was grounded when an early 747-400 tried to fly over the north pole (Scandinavian Air) and the plane did an S maneuver around the pole. The computer couldn't handle 0,0 coordinates. Nothing bad happened, but the fleet got grounded anyway. I had to go to Everett during that time and they had brand new 747s crammed everywhere. I have never seen so much aluminum jammed together.

But it does make sense to be conservative with commercial aircraft, the results of something going wrong are catastrophic.

Disclaimer - not a pilot but have been an air medical crewmember for about 10 years so I'm an informed neophyte when it comes to aviation things but I will defer to pilots on this stuff

Building on what @Unpilot said above, it seems like the aircraft autonomous function problem while not easy is still inherently easier than the car one. Yes, there are some very real challenges you only get with aircraft - 3 dimensions, weather much more of an issue, you can't just tell the plane to pull over if system can't figure out what to do, the risk of screwing up is potentially quite a bit more loss of life and/or property, etc. But it seems like the two biggest complicating factors for fully autonomous car operations are the other drivers and the lack of control over the roads. (By that I mean that changes can happen to a road at any point and without needing approval from the feds, also a big pothole can appear, road debris can appear, etc.) Those factors are far more controlled in the aviation environment.

Hands off and eyes off autonomous car operations seem likely to happen in the near future only in controlled settings - special lanes that are sectioned off from normal travel lanes and include only vehicles that have similar autonomous features. This infrastructure opens up lots of possibilities like communications between cars to coordinate maneuvers and that could allow for more efficient traffic movements. I can see congested areas attracted to invest to implement these features on highways because it can create highways that move more vehicles more safely and that creates savings in a variety of ways.

While level 4 and 5 automation would be great - what I want most is to have the car be able to make reasonable interventions to mitigate or even prevent a serious incident if I'm distracted or fall asleep at the wheel or make a really bad decision. I'd also want the car to monitor my attention level to try to mitigate things before it had to intervene. I'm fine with the assumption for now that I'm operating the vehicle. This is like an intelligent risk averse copilot. That is basically level 3 (with some fine points of difference). It puts the emphasis on safety and not as much on convenience feature.

Regardless of what Tesla has said they can do, that is what I want my car to be able to do.

With aircraft there are basically three failure modes:
1) Mechanical failure
2) Pilot error
3) Something colliding with you or act or war (terrorism also being an act of war)

Planes rarely are in any situation to collide except around airfields. Reliability has become good enough that most accidents today are from pilot error, though probably half or more of those are pilot error that turns a relatively minor problem into something catastrophic. The Air France plane that went down over the Atlantic was a mystery until they found the flight recorders over a year later. It turned out the plane was being flown by the junior most member of the crew while the two more senior pilots slept. The pitot tube iced up and the plane couldn't determine airspeed. The junior co-pilot did all the wrong things and the senior pilot didn't figure out what he was doing until they had run out of altitude and slammed into the Atlantic.

The results of a problem in the air can be much more newsworthy than a car accident, but they are rarer and there are fewer problems to solve. With air transport there are some general aviation people who are not the best trained people in the world, but the worst trained general aviation pilot has more training before getting their license than 90% of the people driving cars. The majority of people in the air are professionals who are highly trained especially when you get above lower altitudes.

In aviation you do need to be concerned with thunderstorms, wind shear, ingesting rain and hail at low altitudes, and one 747 was once blinded by ash from a volcano. But all commercial airliners have weather radar now and they have had regular radar for some time. They generally know what's around them at all times and with TCAS, the planes can communicate with one another and steer away from each other if both planes have the system and are in danger of collision. I think all airliners have TCAS at this point. It's been around 25 years at least.

On the ground there are all sorts of objects that can confuse an auto driving system. There are other drivers who are poorly trained, could be high on something, or just aren't paying attention. Then there are various animals that can "appear" out of nowhere, including humans. Weather at ground level can have much worse visibility and can confuse sensors much more easily than aircraft sensors. The radar suite on an airliner is probably never going to get caked with snow, but Bjorn Nyland found that snow buildup on the nose of a Tesla was common and it tended to blind the radar.

Ground transport are also more prone to bad actors messing with them either for pranks or for more nefarious purposes. Imagine crowded streets like Manhattan with most cars automated. A few people with balloons filled with paint could paralyze traffic for many blocks in all directions. Less obvious tricks would be to set up transmitters that jam radar/lidar.

Another question I don't think anybody has answered is how will cars manage in an electronic soup of other radar or lidar units operating around them, especially in a place like Manhattan where stray signals will be bouncing off the buildings.

These are just the things that occurred to me sitting here writing this. I've thought of many more that I have now forgotten. When I'm out driving I go into software design mode and think about how I would tackle this or that problem. If I had written them down, I would have a pretty staggering list at this point. I have worked on some relatively complex embedded systems, but the complexity of automated driving is staggering to contemplate.
 
A comment on the AP3 speculation above in this thread and also towards the water cooling of potentially retrofitted AP3 hardware in Model S/X that has a fine discussion over on the Autonomous Vehicles sub-forum:
Nit picking, but: AP 2.5 is also air cooled - in the S/X. In Model 3, you have water-cooling but that's for the full "ice" unit i.e. both MCU and AP 2.5 in sandwich config
Of course. Retrofit units are the reason for different types (great great grandfather? post in this chain) and 30 minute swap outs.
So S and X would get a different hw3 module than 3?

Personally my guess is this:

"AP3" for current Model S/X (AP2/2.5, MCU1/MCU2) will be different than "AP3" for future Model S/X. This may be the case for even the sensor setup, but mostly my comment concerns the AP3 computer in this message. Current Model S/X would get "Legacy-AP3", while some future Model S/X refresh would get the full "AP3".

When AP3 ships, I would not be surprised if it ships together with the long-rumoured Model S/X dashboard facelift. This would then probably also include a new "MCU3/AP3" or "ICE" liquid-cooled setup for Model S/X, maybe similar sandwhich as current Model 3's "ICE", with also the interior camera and all that. The new setup could power new things also like a HUD or a new, smaller instrument cluster screen as well.

However, current Model S/X (and cars sold before AP3 ships in Model S/X) would - I expect - continue with the legacy MCU1/MCU2/IC setup and a separate APE computer just as they have today. They would get retrofitted with something a little different - the "Legacy-AP3" - behind the glove compartment that may well remain air-cooled as well. Basically the overall setup would remain similar to today.

"Legacy-AP3" might feature the same board or similar board to the full AP3, but otherwise be placed in a legacy-compatible container, with different fittings and possibly different connectors etc. that are suitable for a quick swap in older cars. It is not impossible the board itself might be a little different too, if that makes sense for Tesla. (AP2.5 in Model S/X already is a little different than it is in Model 3 - the selfie cam connector is empty at least.)

It is also possible Tesla could start shipping AP3 before Model S/X dash facelift is ready, of course, given that some speculation/leakage places the facelift only in Q3/2019 and AP3 sooner. So it might come first to Model S/X in the "Legacy-AP3" form, of course. But once a Model S/X dash facelift happens, that is at least when I expect Model 3 and Model S/X to become close to each other in this regard, liquid-cooling included.

So old cars with "Legacy-AP3" will likely remain without some of these newer particulars and use other solutions. IMO it seems also likely "Legacy-AP3" will miss some redundancy or some sensor features in later AP suite versions and that these will never get retrofitted (AP2.5 of course already has some additional redundancy and color-channel cameras where AP2 does not, and AP2.5 Model 3 has the interior camera not precent in AP2/2.5 on Model S/X, so there is some precedent already...).

Tesla-Model-SX-design-refresh-electrek-1.jpg


Exclusive first look at Tesla Model S and Model X interior refresh: going spartan like Model 3
 
Any comment on what you disagree with @StefanSarzio - genuinely interested?

It’s more than said. AP2.0 is rccc, AP2.5 is rccb. This goes for all cams (except BUC of course)

Good info, thanks. Might play into why AP2 is not getting dashcam - in addition to processing power. If they think AP2.5 makes for a more palatable visual output... I still think processing power is the most likely culprit, but we shall see once those "AP3" retrofits happen.


LOL. :D No, I'm me. But I do think @rnortman tells it like it is.
 
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Due to a welcome reminder above, adding one more to the list:

7. CCS support coming. Now that Tesla is forbidding any commercial use of Superchargers and thus stopping the use of the network for commercial long-distance travel, at least pending any policy clarification or change, CCS support is more needed than ever. Luckily the larger charge port door in Model 3 as well as the rumor mill is supporting this coming to Model 3 at least in Europe. And if it comes to Model 3, Model S/X are sure to follow... Also, China getting its own additional charge port is proof of localization in this area...
Sources tell me that Model 3 indeed will get CCS in Europe. They will expand the Type 2 port and add the two additional pins.

If Model 3 indeed gets CCS Model S/X will get this as well in Europe.

In addition, Fastned (Netherlands) will deploy the first 170kW CCS chargers at the North of Amsterdam later this year.

I expect Model S/X to get CCS in Europe somewhere in Q1/Q2 2018.

The latest Electrek news on a European charge connector Model 3 suggests that the placement of the charge connector would allow for European CCS. While the connector so far seems to be the same kind of European Type 2 as on Model S/X, the placement high up the charge port area suggests space has been left for CCS DC pins underneath this connector.

I find the speculation plausible that Tesla is only waiting for the correct time to implement CCS on the Model 3, at least in Europe. It might not happen at the European launch, though, because they would likely want to align any such change with a Model S/X upgrade as well - and on Model S/X it would likely take a facelift of some kind to implement a larger port and thus might wait for a suitable time as has been discussed and rumoured previously on this thread. There have been rumours of new rear lights for Model S/X of course, which would fit... (E.g. Q3/2019?)

Tesla might also wish to align this with potential Supercharger upgrades, though that seems IMO less likely as nothing stops Tesla from launching this upgrade as CCS compatibility only - Superchargers could remain as is in Europe as Type 2 connector is compatible with CCS... It seems also plausible Supercharger updates might start from U.S. first and thus not be as likely related to any CCS news at all, as CCS in the U.S. is a whole different ballgame for Tesla.

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New Tesla Model 3 with different plug spotted ahead of European launch