Rumored 130 kWh Model S in light of Roadster announcement

[AnxietyRanger]

Putting together 1+1, I think today's Roadster announcement increased the likelihood that the rumoured 130 kWh battery for Model S/X is real. The Roadster with 200 kWh battery shows the true packaging and performance potential of the new 21-70 battery cell, not the anti-sell effort that is Model 3...

With the Gigafactory issues of not being able to produce the 21-70 batteries in volume yet, Tesla is obviously playing their time. A new 21-70 battery for Model S/X may well be technically ready, but can't be allowed to harm current Model S/X sales, nor endanger the Model 3 ramp-up, because they can't build it fast enough yet.

In the Roadster 200 kWh obviously uses some frunk and/or trunk space, but in the much larger Model S/X, 130 kWh is a realistic-sounding maximum number that might fit Model S/X's floor-space assuming 21-70's allow for a packaging improvements inside a re-designed pack (taller cells, less packaging metal vs. chemistry, better shape for less cooling "material" perhaps).

Arguably the Roadster is a "safe" way of showing the real performance and possibilities with the new cell.

"I just got a heads up from a friend that is close to a Tesla exec that they have a 130 kWh battery pack being used in his car."

New battery pack size coming down the pipe. | Tesla

[Unsubstantiated Rumor] Just Read That A 130 Battery Is Being Tested??!!

What do you think?

 

[cartwright]

Yeah, I think this is a preview at what is coming up for S/X very soon. I expect to see a bigger battery offered in 2018, probably with an interior refresh of some sort.

 

[dmode]

My bet is this will be available in a "next gen" version of S/X. A 500 mile range S and X can have a devastating effect on luxury ICE market as I know plenty of holdouts due to range anxiety.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

My bet is this will be available in a "next gen" version of S/X. A 500 mile range S and X can have a devastating effect on luxury ICE market as I know plenty of holdouts due to range anxiety.

The rumor definitely sounds like Tesla is running this in an existing Model S or X, not a next-gen one. We know 18650's pretty much max out at 100 kWh in the current form-factor, but if we assume 21-70's can fit more into less space through Tesla's R&D finding it a more optimal shape, 130 kWh in a re-designed battery pack that fits the current platform does not sound out of the realms of possible...

 

[cartwright]

With the model 3 issues and focus, I don't anticipate Tesla making any major "next gen" type updates to the S/X for 2018. I think we'll see minor tweaks, mostly interior since that is where most complaints are. The focus will be on improving quality and the bigger battery.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

With the model 3 issues and focus, I don't anticipate Tesla making any major "next gen" type updates to the S/X for 2018. I think we'll see minor tweaks, mostly interior since that is where most complaints are. The focus will be on improving quality and the bigger battery.

I could see Model 3 delays causing delays to Model S/X changes, as they probably have done to a next-gen Model S/X battery (P130D?), but these changes otherwise have probably been in the pipeline for long. Tesla is a big company, they can and do multitask (as evidenced by the Semi and Roadster). I continue to think a Model S/X dash/interior/computer refresh is likely imminent. The 21-70 battery, given the Gigafactory woes, that is more likely IMO to be delayed...

 

[Tiger]

@JonMc I am ready to reserve a MX P130D with refreshed interior and 0-60 @ 2.3sec. Also nose cone could be similar to M3 nose without cat gap.

 

[cartwright]

yikes. IMO that interior would be a downgrade from the current MS

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That's an old Model S concept car/prototype.

 

[selfbp]

If they do up the batter size in the S/ X I don’t see the S getting much of a 0-60 increase from it. Now with the new Roadster (250,000$) they have a vehicle that is the ‘King’ of Tesla Inc performance, and they don’t want to have their workhorse model stepping on the King’s Toes. I see maybe a performance increase with the X though to put it on or with the PD S performance.

But hey, Tesla now has a set in stone rep for surprising everyone even more. So who knows!

 

[Chaserr]

S doesn't really need an increase in 0-60, literally the only car faster than it is another Tesla. What the S does need is more range than the cheapest Tesla sold, rather than less. I have no doubt this will happen in 2018, but I don't know if it will be in a new Model S or a repackaged pack that fits the current car's pack footprint. But there is absolutely no way Tesla doesn't at least double the S and X pack size in the next year; numbers of the Model 3 are ramping up well and buyers will soon be posting stories of ranges exceeding Tesla's anti-sell numbers. That's going to impact S and X sales, so they have something planned for the near future.

 

[henderrj]

200 kWh pack for S & X considering new Roadster

 

[smilepak]

What I would love for them to have is the ability to upgrade existing to larger battery packs with a reasonable price. I don't want to keep buying a new Tesla every year or two years at the rate them changing these battery pack sizes. I spent way too much on mine as it is and want the other 60% of it to last as long as possible.

 

[RogerHScott]

With the model 3 issues and focus, I don't anticipate Tesla making any major "next gen" type updates to the S/X for 2018.

Did the same concerns lead you to anticipate the new Roadster?

 

[gene]

What I would love for them to have is the ability to upgrade existing to larger battery packs with a reasonable price. I don't want to keep buying a new Tesla every year or two years at the rate them changing these battery pack sizes. I spent way too much on mine as it is and want the other 60% of it to last as long as possible.

You live in California, as do I. We have lots of Superchargers, I can't understand why you need a larger battery? I have a 2013 S85 and I do a lot of long roadtrips throughout the western states. Range is rarely, if ever an issue.

 

[diplomat33]

Anyone notice that the interior of the new roadster seemed to be a mix of the Model 3 and S interiors? The roadster seemed to have the same air vent system as the 3 with a similar minimalist dash but with a vertical large screen like the S. So, I wonder if the roadster interior is a taste of what the new S interior will be some day?

 

[smilepak]

You live in California, as do I. We have lots of Superchargers, I can't understand why you need a larger battery? I have a 2013 S85 and I do a lot of long roadtrips throughout the western states. Range is rarely, if ever an issue.

S85 still more range than 70D. Bigger battery less time stopping frequently. Also can go on multi days of no charge if forgot to plug in at night. My daily commute is 90 miles round trip. Keeping it at 90% leaves me at 100 range or less At the end of the day. Going to SJ I like to skip Tajon if possible which I can't coming from riverside. Going out on the weekend from Riverside to Irvine it Hungtington Beach, limit me from.doing more without having to charge. Not useful if you have a car full of ppl or go in groups.

To me be able to do 300 is the sweet spot. With 70D & 90% Is under 210 but realistically 170ish

 

[electracity]

Anyone notice that the interior of the new roadster seemed to be a mix of the Model 3 and S interiors? The roadster seemed to have the same air vent system as the 3 with a similar minimalist dash but with a vertical large screen like the S. So, I wonder if the roadster interior is a taste of what the new S interior will be some day?

I think by production they will have a better interior for the new roadster. But I do think we saw some hints of the future for the S/X. The air vent thing is too weirdly interesting to not use in all cars.

I'm going to guess the exterior is 95% done, and the interior 50-75%. Tastes will even change a bit by 2020. Carbon fiber look might be uncool.

 

[idealsol]

You live in California, as do I. We have lots of Superchargers, I can't understand why you need a larger battery? I have a 2013 S85 and I do a lot of long roadtrips throughout the western states. Range is rarely, if ever an issue.

I’m in Orange County and would love to see more range
We just took a trip to Phoenix
My wife doesn’t like the stops - we made 2 getting there and actually 3 including Buckeye on the way back
A 130+ battery would be something I’d clearly be interested in

Besides, it’s fasle economies of Supercharging for us
Whatever we’re saving, my wife will spend at each stop and more !!

Beef jerky at quartzite, odds and ends at Bealls in Buckeye, and the Costco of supermarkets, Winco in Indio

 

[thegruf]

Biggest reason for 200KWH in new roadster is cell count.
More power requires more cells if the current per cell is not to increase.
The extra range is a (welcome) side effect of this, the additional mass is not (for a sports car)
Also tells us that no step change improvement in cell IR is expected.
wonder if they will move to higher voltage for the pack though as cable sizes could get a bit extreme (and heavy) if they stick at current levels.
The other big factor will be cooling. Will Tesla unlock more sustained performance by upping the cooling allowing trackday use? This is one area where Porsche might grab a bit of a lead with the Mission E as no way will their client base let them get away without trackday capability.

Fun times