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Running Model 3's in Super Street SCCA Autocross

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,268
2,771
Seattle, WA
Interesting you're settling on -2/-3 stability. I run -7/-8. With more than that, I can really feel the system working and it feels like it slows the car down where it doesn't need to. I also like being able to get a bit of a spin started to rotate around cones.

I did run -10 once. I'm not that good apparently, the car was just a tail happy wig wag machine.
 

RacerChris

Member
Jan 3, 2020
107
63
Indiana
Interesting you're settling on -2/-3 stability. I run -7/-8. With more than that, I can really feel the system working and it feels like it slows the car down where it doesn't need to. I also like being able to get a bit of a spin started to rotate around cones.

I did run -10 once. I'm not that good apparently, the car was just a tail happy wig wag machine.
I might experiment with it a little further (-4/5 or so) but I found that I was just losing time if the car was moving beyond where -3 allowed. I definitely get a lot of rotation/slip angle at -3 (had a "big moment" during one of my runs last weekend for instance!)
 

Stretch2727

Engineer and Car Nut
Nov 8, 2015
551
3,902
East Coast, USA
Thanks Guys. I will start with 50/50, and probably dial back the stability control a touch. Last time I ran it few years ago it understeered quite a bit without track mode.

If 50/50 is optimum what is the bias with no track mode? Isn't the 0 setting on the stability control just the standard stability control?
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,268
2,771
Seattle, WA
The way I read the manual, stock stability control is +10.
From what I have felt, the bias is 50/50 without track mode as well. But what more do you really want? It's only bias when you're on power, so it doesn't dramatically change the handling of the car at all times. I have found some front bias 60/40 to be interesting when it's wet out. Or 0/100 when you just want to drive like an idiot ;)
 

RacerChris

Member
Jan 3, 2020
107
63
Indiana
Thanks Guys. I will start with 50/50, and probably dial back the stability control a touch. Last time I ran it few years ago it understeered quite a bit without track mode.

If 50/50 is optimum what is the bias with no track mode? Isn't the 0 setting on the stability control just the standard stability control?
You can go ahead and start out at 0 but you'll probably want to pull it back more - I think it intervenes a bit too much/too soon around at 0. The car will definitely understeer (though sometimes I notice some oversteer in certain conditions) if you hammer on the throttle with the wheel cranked but to me, the key is getting a little slip angle on entry and being patient until you can hit the launch button (right pedal :)
 
Mar 11, 2010
4,571
1,448
Humboldt/Los Altos
Driver preference of course however I haven’t found anything other than 50/50 or 45/55 to be worth anything time wise. Cars running heavy rear bias look like fun however I’m setting FTDs at 50/50 and -3 stability.
I finally went to -10 stability, was running -6 or so but even at -10 it still does use some stability control.- but you can spin ;)
when the Hoosiers lose it! extra fun
50/50 is quickest maybe 45/55 is ok too... now running on 295 A7 w/ ~3 camber all around
auto x this weekend...yay!


For the op question running 265 square in SS if you rotate your wheels (and tires once) you get complete perfect wear until they are slicks on RE71...I went through more than a set in one auto X season though...I'm on my 3rd set of RE and second set of A7 in just 1 -1/2 yr
auto X wheels are cheap compared to tires
 
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WesC

Member
Aug 26, 2018
248
99
Las Vegas
So does this mean my UP mild springs disqualify me? What about adding stainless steel brake lines? Those should be fine.

also running 20x9 bc forged wheels woth pilot sport 4s 255/35/20 tires on a 2018.
 

Praet0r1an

Member
Mar 22, 2021
8
2
Hawaii
V
Good to know. As long as I can run it doesnt really matter. Its not like Im n excellent driver thats going to win much against others that are, lol.
Very few (if any) mods would disqualify you from running period, you just get bumped up a class. For instance, if you put canards on the front of your car that would count as an aero mod and put you up into Street Modified, which is a significantly higher class than Super Street (or the new EV-X class).

I for one am really excited about the new EV-X class, as it'll allow M3P owners to modify their cars to really maximize performance (and save tires with more camber) whilst not losing out much on PAX.
 

RacerChris

Member
Jan 3, 2020
107
63
Indiana
V

Very few (if any) mods would disqualify you from running period, you just get bumped up a class. For instance, if you put canards on the front of your car that would count as an aero mod and put you up into Street Modified, which is a significantly higher class than Super Street (or the new EV-X class).

I for one am really excited about the new EV-X class, as it'll allow M3P owners to modify their cars to really maximize performance (and save tires with more camber) whilst not losing out much on PAX.
I will be making the EV-X transition here soon (once my goods arrive). I think the PAX is going to be pretty sweet with mods (and massive wheels/tires! :)
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,268
2,771
Seattle, WA
I wonder if the plaid model S could beat the Vets and Viper ACRs on the track
AutoX or road courses?

Road courses? Matters how long the race is ;)
Some people are mentioning the Model S brakes aren't the best either, which is understandable for that much power and mass, but on any real non-drag strip, this is really important. Sure, you can fix this, but you can upgrade a Viper too...

AutoX... The Model 3 already beats the Vettes and Vipers. The Model S is a bit long and heavy though....
 
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gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,268
2,771
Seattle, WA
How about P1 and Senna ? 😜
I hate the use of this video!

First, it's clear none of those cars are racing, or they are driven by less experienced people. Someone looked and the Model S in that video was slower between two measurable points than the stock P1 record lap.

The Model S plaid is awesome, but until we actually see it in real competition, those of us that know what real racing is shouldn't hold up a Model S passing a car in a partial track video as if it means that car is definitely faster over a full lap. We know better and shouldn't be propagating this, it makes us look like Tesla Stans.

Plus... That's a Model S with a stripped interior, big wing, R comp tires, and a round steering wheel. Of course modded cars can start beating stock supercars. There are modded civics that run 1/4's faster than Plaid, but nobody says this means a stock Civic is faster.
 

MODEL+

Vendor
Oct 21, 2020
932
817
Portland, OR
I hate the use of this video!

First, it's clear none of those cars are racing, or they are driven by less experienced people. Someone looked and the Model S in that video was slower between two measurable points than the stock P1 record lap.

The Model S plaid is awesome, but until we actually see it in real competition, those of us that know what real racing is shouldn't hold up a Model S passing a car in a partial track video as if it means that car is definitely faster over a full lap. We know better and shouldn't be propagating this, it makes us look like Tesla Stans.

Plus... That's a Model S with a stripped interior, big wing, R comp tires, and a round steering wheel. Of course modded cars can start beating stock supercars. There are modded civics that run 1/4's faster than Plaid, but nobody says this means a stock Civic is faster.
I understand the point you're trying to make.

One can also make the argument that the Plaid S is a heavy family sedan tearing up multi-million dollar supercars at the track...
🤔 🤔 🤔


Danny
 

gearchruncher

Active Member
Sep 20, 2016
2,268
2,771
Seattle, WA
One can also make the argument that the Plaid S is a heavy family sedan tearing up multi-million dollar supercars at the track...
Then say that. Let's not say it "beats a P1 and Senna" and then demonstrating it with a completely modified and stripped car, with aero, not the car you can buy from Tesla, based on one random pass in a straightaway,

This is how Tesla Stans get their bad rep. Tesla is the best at everything, no caveats, "proven" using spreadsheets and estimates, not real race lap times, and anyone that says otherwise is a TSLA short.

Anyone that really knows cars knows that they are tuned for a specific purpose. A Plaid S is not the best off roader. It's not the best vehicle to tow a boat. And we all know that in a 10 lap race (only 15 minutes) at Laguna Seca, there is zero way that a stock Plaid will beat a stock P1. We've all been at a track and watched a Miata pass a Porsche. It doesn't mean the Miata is faster, but it does mean Miatas are a hell of a bargain.

We can describe how awesome Teslas are without resorting to hyperbole, and as experienced track rats, we should be helping bring EV's into car culture by recognizing what their awesome traits are as well as their quirks, and how they realistically compare to other cars, not by charging in and screaming TESLAS ARE THE BEST AT EVERYTHING and making everyone else annoyed at our cult-like behaviors
 

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