Running Model 3's in Super Street SCCA Autocross

[Praet0r1an]

Is anyone actively autocrossing their M3P's in SCCA autocross in Super Street class? We're in the market for one and I'm curious what folks are running within that class for wheel/tire setups.

SS Rules:
1) Wheel width cannot change, but wheel size can be +1/-1.... so 19x9 is probably the best bet for staying legal and driving manners, but finding wheels in that size seems to be challenging.
2) Only shocks can be changed out. Looked like Unplugged Performance has some shocks for that purpose. Autocross-Spec Adjustable Shock Set for Tesla Model 3 - Unplugged Performance
3) Brake Pads + fluid can be adjusted.
4) Not much else can be changed from what I recall.

Seems to me the biggest limitations are the M3's native lack of camber adjustment and wheel size, but you could still piece together a car that is fairly competitive.

Thoughts?

 

[dsgerbc]

Stock wheel width is 8.5, so make those 19x8.5.

 

[Ookami]

19x9 is correct. Stock wheel on the 2021 M3P is 20x9

 

[MODEL+]

Options are limited but here's a really good one:
Titan 7 T-S5
19x9 +35
Fully forged @ 20.2lbs / Plug & Play for M3P

18-20" Titan 7 T-S5 Wheel Set

Titan 7 T-S5 wheel set designed specifically for Model 3 Fully forged construction offers no compromise between weight and structural rigidity. Forged under 10,000 tons of pressure, these wheels will handle anything you can possibly throw at it from the race track to the street's punishing...

modelplusstudio.com

Danny

 

[dsgerbc]

I would not recommend blowing $3k on a dedicated set of wheels for the stock class, which will get old really quick with how this car eats through tires.
Those are good wheels for just regular driving though.

P.S. WTH happened to the OP in this topic, I no longer see it.

 

[Praet0r1an]

I would not recommend blowing $3k on a dedicated set of wheels for the stock class, which will get old really quick with how this car eats through tires.
Those are good wheels for just regular driving though.

P.S. WTH happened to the OP in this topic, I no longer see it.

How bad is the tire wear? I guess I was figuring saving money on a dedicated coilover setup, control arms, etc. plus being bumped up to ASP (which would then require hoosiers) seems to be a bit of a tradeoff if you have a dedicated set of wheels for autocross.

Also, I'd like to know as well what happened to my original post!

 

[Praet0r1an]

Here was my OP:

Is anyone actively autocrossing their M3P's in SCCA autocross in Super Street class? We're in the market for one and I'm curious what folks are running within that class for wheel/tire setups.

SS Rules:
1) Wheel width cannot change, but wheel size can be +1/-1.... so 19x9 is probably the best bet for staying legal and driving manners, but finding wheels in that size seems to be challenging.
2) Only shocks can be changed out. Looked like Unplugged Performance has some shocks for that purpose. Autocross-Spec Adjustable Shock Set for Tesla Model 3 - Unplugged Performance
3) Brake Pads + fluid can be adjusted.
4) Not much else can be changed from what I recall.

Seems to me the biggest limitations are the M3's native lack of camber adjustment and wheel size, but you could still piece together a car that is fairly competitive.

Thoughts?

==================
(moderator note: This is post is actually the OP of this thread. The actual opening post got moved to another section inadvertently. just making a note that this is the OP in this thread. Sorry about the hassle, OP.)

 

[dsgerbc]

How bad is the tire wear? I guess I was figuring saving money on a dedicated coilover setup, control arms, etc. plus being bumped up to ASP (which would then require hoosiers) seems to be a bit of a tradeoff if you have a dedicated set of wheels for autocross.

Also, I'd like to know as well what happened to my original post!

Locally, you're likely to be competitive in ASP/PAX even without Hoosiers. But if you want a chance at topping PAX or to be competitive nationally, sticking to SS is probably much better.

It's a heavy car with low stock camber. You can gain maybe 0.2-0.3 degrees by maxing out the adjustment in the upper front suspension mount bracket, and taking out whatever slack available in the lower front control arm mount. I only did a few events in SS (with 19x8.5 wheel +265/35 RE71s) and ruined the outside edge pretty quick. You can preserve them by running high pressures, but that defeats the purpose of trying to be competitive.

There are several good autox treads in these forums. Here's one.

 

[rodhx]

1) Wheel width cannot change, but wheel size can be +1/-1.... so 19x9 is probably the best bet for staying legal and driving manners, but finding wheels in that size seems to be challenging.

It may help to shop for 2015+ Mustang fitments when looking for 19x9 wheels. A few years ago I ran a 2015 ecoboost Mustang in DS and used 19x9 Axis wheels from Tirerack. When shopping wheels remember the offset has to be within 7mm of the stock wheels.

EDIT: oh well, those wheels aren't listed any more. Shoulda kept my Mustang autox/track wheels I guess

 

[SK360]

XS-A is also a class option that wouldn't require competing against Hoosiers.

Also some regions are adopting EV as a CAM like street tire class based on

2024 PAX/RTP Index

Autocross RTP/PAX Index numbers

www.solotime.info

I ran SS last year on 18x8.5 (I'm a rule breaker, what can I say) with 255/40/18 RE71R, outer tire wear was certainly an issue but after 12 events and the street miles driving back and forth to them I could still probably get another half season out of the tires. Some people act like you get 2 events from tires on these cars.

Now that I'm on coilovers and front camber arms I am running 19x10 with 265/35/19 RE71R running EV class, had my first event yesterday and between me and my codriver we made 12.5 runs keeping hot pressures around 32-33psi and the front tires look great.

 

[dsgerbc]

Some people act like you get 2 events from tires on these cars.

Depends on circumstance. Temperature, co-driver/no co-driver, surface abrasiveness, doing test-n-tunes.

P.S. the EV class seems to have a nice PAX, but I cannot seem to find it in the 2021 rule book. Was it some recent bulletin?

 

[SK360]

Depends on circumstance. Temperature, co-driver/no co-driver, surface abrasiveness, doing test-n-tunes.

P.S. the EV class seems to have a nice PAX, but I cannot seem to find it in the 2021 rule book. Was it some recent bulletin?

Not sure as I would rather read the obituaries than anything from the SCCA.... But my club (not SCCA just follow their classing) and another local region are running it as basically an EV CAM

 

[rodhx]

Depends on circumstance. Temperature, co-driver/no co-driver, surface abrasiveness, doing test-n-tunes.

P.S. the EV class seems to have a nice PAX, but I cannot seem to find it in the 2021 rule book. Was it some recent bulletin?

The EV class is more like CAM so not in the rule book, at least for now. I understand the actual EV ruleset is currently getting fleshed out so hopefully we will know more soon.

 

[superflyrolla]

I run super street. I don't want to sacrifice daily driveability or purchase control arms, lowering springs, coilovers, or brake kits. The tires wear the outside edges, but I'm still getting a full season out of 245 RE71Rs. I have some 265s in the garage that I hope to get onto the 8.5" wide wheels. You an also change offset 7mm and get one sway bar.

I was initially pretty upset being bumped form D street to Super Street (nonP), but the car was still pretty competitive locally. I even won PAX a couple times.

 

[Dallas J]

Depends on circumstance. Temperature, co-driver/no co-driver, surface abrasiveness, doing test-n-tunes.

P.S. the EV class seems to have a nice PAX, but I cannot seem to find it in the 2021 rule book. Was it some recent bulletin?

The EV class is more like CAM so not in the rule book, at least for now. I understand the actual EV ruleset is currently getting fleshed out so hopefully we will know more soon.

EV while it is listed with an index still is not a real class. And not like in the way CAM is controlled outside of SCCA but allowed to also run. XS and EV were announced at the same time and XS was officially given a ruleset to be a provisional class. EV has never gotten official class rules and got delayed due to Covid. People seem to assume its CAM like or XS like but the reality is comments have been made by Howard that it is not a mirror of either ruleset.

So the fact we have a published index is silly, especially considering if you prepped a Model3p to the extent as top XS builds (or SM cars on street tires) then it would be dramatically faster than the index would indicate. So the index is right now a bit of a sham.

 

[RacerChris]

EV while it is listed with an index still is not a real class. And not like in the way CAM is controlled outside of SCCA but allowed to also run. XS and EV were announced at the same time and XS was officially given a ruleset to be a provisional class. EV has never gotten official class rules and got delayed due to Covid. People seem to assume its CAM like or XS like but the reality is comments have been made by Howard that it is not a mirror of either ruleset.

So the fact we have a published index is silly, especially considering if you prepped a Model3p to the extent as top XS builds (or SM cars on street tires) then it would be dramatically faster than the index would indicate. So the index is right now a bit of a sham.

I was eyeballing this for the very reason...if EV-X maintains a pax that is like .002 higher than SS, it would be an FTDI monster.

For the OP, I am running 18 x 8.5 (I can get away with 18 because mine is a performance 'stealth') with the unplugged autox street class shocks. I have done one event on them and felt they made a huge difference. You can also run an aftermarket sway bar at one end - I am stock on both ends right now.

I don't have the performance model brakes and think mine are fine...I might put some more aggressive pads on at some point, but for autox, you don't need to worry about brakes overheating, etc.

I'm now running 265/40/18 Goodyear Supercar 3's - (from 255/40/18 RE71's) - I do not have any events on the SC3's but I feel like they might be good. Having a larger sidewall might help with shoulder wear (at least being more uniform) - we'll see. I hope to have them perfectly scrubbed in just in time for the Champ Tour in June.

 

[Stretch2727]

Has anyone experimented with the front rear bias in the Model 3 Performance Track mode. Planning on running my M3P shortly and just curious if anyone found a setting they like. Obviously track and driver dependent. The few suggestions I have seen seem to suggest 60-70% rear bias.

 

[SK360]

Has anyone experimented with the front rear bias in the Model 3 Performance Track mode. Planning on running my M3P shortly and just curious if anyone found a setting they like. Obviously track and driver dependent. The few suggestions I have seen seem to suggest 60-70% rear bias.

Driver preference of course however I haven’t found anything other than 50/50 or 45/55 to be worth anything time wise. Cars running heavy rear bias look like fun however I’m setting FTDs at 50/50 and -3 stability.

 

[dsgerbc]

I think it will depend on mods/handling balance.
With plenty of camber up front, at a recent test-n-tune I settled on 50/50 and 0–+2 on stability for the fastest setup. A driver or another 3 at the event (a largely-stock one) told me he settled on 45/55 @-5, but he seemed a much smoother driver.

A more rear-biased setting is quite fun though, just slower.

 

[RacerChris]

I've played with 45/55 and 50/50 and settled on 50/50 with -3 stability. I did play with a little less regen but settled on more. I ran Champ Tour at Peru last weekend and put up a hard-fought 5th place performance. The C8's and the GT3 were just not touchable that were at the top (though my car was fast enough to generate some fun discussion and get some good questions!). The EV-X Transformation is going to begin soon - I will share the transformation on here as it develops.