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Running Solar with one Powerwall 2: Individual Backup Battery Issue/Question
- Thread starter raiderxx
- Start date
I found the documentation for my SolarEdge SE7600H-US
https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_hd_wave_inverter_installation_guide_na.pdf
Appendix starts at page 78. Looking at page 81 there is a high default trip limit of 60.6 if I read this correctly ?
The other document I found is https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se-hd-wave-single-phase-inverter-datasheet-na.pdf , but is useless I think
I also found this one https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/application_note_power_control_configuration.pdf
I thought the "Wakeup configuration" would help, but the tech support at powerEdge says that the values are hard coded depending on the country.
Any thoughts ?
https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se_hd_wave_inverter_installation_guide_na.pdf
Appendix starts at page 78. Looking at page 81 there is a high default trip limit of 60.6 if I read this correctly ?
The other document I found is https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se-hd-wave-single-phase-inverter-datasheet-na.pdf , but is useless I think
I also found this one https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/application_note_power_control_configuration.pdf
I thought the "Wakeup configuration" would help, but the tech support at powerEdge says that the values are hard coded depending on the country.
Any thoughts ?
Your inverter is not Rule 21 compliant from what I can tell. A firmware update MIGHT be possible, but regardless the Powerwall firmware does not yet use this throttling based on grid frequency so its currently irrelevant. You dont want to mess with the default values, thats for places where the grid naturally has more instability like Hawaii.
No, that won't fix the issue because the PW needs to shift the frequency to curtail solar production. The problem is they go way overboard when the grid fails and the batteries are fully charged, immediately jumping to 66Hz to shut everything down. If you come up to full charge during an outage, the frequency shift is gradual and stops as soon as solar production stops. But they seem to think that to make this work with every (non-compliant) inverter in the world that they have to do this 66Hz jump when in reality there are other options like starting at 63Hz for a few seconds or ramping up in steps. But they won't fix this until as many people that are bothered by it call and complain. So please do, and voice your dissatisfaction with the current operation.
They also go way overboard when the batteries aren't fully charged. I had the problem last month where my batteries were down to less than 5% during a 46 hour outage and the Powerwalls raised the frequency in an effort to warm up. The solar and Powerwalls were cycling all day, charging for 5 to 30 minutes before shutting down and starting the cycle over again. They upgraded the firmware on my inverters and made some changes to address the issue. They confirmed things worked fine a couple of days later during a simulated outage but the temperature was warmer and the batteries were already at a higher state of charge.
Ok, so let me make sure I understand this correctly:
1. If the Powerwall is full (or near full) during a grid outage, it will raise the frequency to 66HZ, which will cause problems for LED lights and many other appliances. Bad result.
2. This is also a problem if the power output of PVs exceeds the maximum 5KW powerwall charge rate (who raises frequency in such a case? Powerwall detects increased voltage? And raises frequency?)
3. This is less of a problem with 2 Powerwalls, because they are less likely to reach full capacity, and PV panels are less likely to exceed 10KW power?
So, other than increasing the number ofcowbells Powerwalls, are there any other solutions to this problem?
1. If the Powerwall is full (or near full) during a grid outage, it will raise the frequency to 66HZ, which will cause problems for LED lights and many other appliances. Bad result.
2. This is also a problem if the power output of PVs exceeds the maximum 5KW powerwall charge rate (who raises frequency in such a case? Powerwall detects increased voltage? And raises frequency?)
3. This is less of a problem with 2 Powerwalls, because they are less likely to reach full capacity, and PV panels are less likely to exceed 10KW power?
So, other than increasing the number of
1. Correct, based on current firmware
2. Correct, Powerwall raises frequency, which triggers solar to turn off. Powerwall detects the total power through the CT meters.
3. Correct
Best solution to generation overage problem is to reduce PV generation manually, by turning off PV breakers, or increasing usage. Great time to do some baking with an electric stove, maybe turn on the AC too lol.
Best solution for the flickering lights problem is to mass email Tesla support and make them realize what a problem this is for you as a customer.
For sensitive plug in electronics that don't like 66hz, use a more expensive inverter based plug in UPS, which conditions the power automatically to 60 hz.
For other types of plug in UPS that detect 66hz as a bad grid and go to backup power, use a different UPS that allows a wider range of power frequency before tripping
2. Correct, Powerwall raises frequency, which triggers solar to turn off. Powerwall detects the total power through the CT meters.
3. Correct
Best solution to generation overage problem is to reduce PV generation manually, by turning off PV breakers, or increasing usage. Great time to do some baking with an electric stove, maybe turn on the AC too lol.
Best solution for the flickering lights problem is to mass email Tesla support and make them realize what a problem this is for you as a customer.
For sensitive plug in electronics that don't like 66hz, use a more expensive inverter based plug in UPS, which conditions the power automatically to 60 hz.
For other types of plug in UPS that detect 66hz as a bad grid and go to backup power, use a different UPS that allows a wider range of power frequency before tripping
NinjaVece
Member
Vines, see my thread started last September with updates through March:
Powerwall 2 + UPS Connundrum - and solution
Tesla had 66 Hertz as the controlling frequency until October then switched to 63 Hertz. However, in March they switched it back to 66 Hertz due to a number of micro-inverters that don't honor 63 Hertz and need a stronger smackdown.
My solution to Tesla PW2 support (as you can see in one of the last posts) is for the PW2 to initially rise to 66 Hertz during those moments that the PW2 is 100% charged and the grid drops out while solar panels are generating. This will knock out ALL inverters. After 5-10 seconds, drop to 63 Hertz. In 3-5 minutes the inverters will look to start producing and see 63 Hertz. For those inverters that honor 63 Hz, nothing more need be done. For those that don't, cycle up to 66 Hz for 5-10 seconds - rinse and repeat until the event is over.
This will allow most systems to experience only a 5-10 second period of 66 Hz and the rest of the event will be at 63 Hz until the PW2 can allow solar inverter production again. But for recalcitrant inverters, the PW2 is then prepared to control them also with the repeating short 66 Hz burst - again until the PW2 can allow solar inverter input or the grid outage event ends.
wbhokie
Member
We discussed this at length in that thread that Ninja mentioned above. There were a few UPS units I no longer needed due to having a powerwall now. Some of the other ones that I did still need I replaced with ones made by Eaton, which support the power frequency that the powerwalls put out during a power outage. They do work, and they don't need to last long... only long enough for the transition time between the main power to the powerwall, which is seconds at the maximum.
NinjaVece
Member
wbhokie, yes, the Eatons are likely the way to go due to the current sitch - I also have a Minuteman. If they implemented my solution above, all UPSs (including my APCs) would work OK and only go to internal power for any short bursts at 66 Hertz that occurred. We'll see if Tesla will implement this change to make all UPSs functional again...
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