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Tesla won't use franchises; will handle sales, service | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews
Tesla won't use franchises; will handle sales, service | The Car Tech blog - CNET Reviews
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Rural Service
- Thread starter efusco
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shark2k
Member
With that being the case I would be better off using my AAA Plus membership and getting a flat bed to tow me to where it wouldn't cost me anything (probably the showroom). Of course for me that would work out fine cause if I have to leave the car over night for what ever reason the showroom would be in NYC and I could take public transportation home if I needed to. Though I need Tesla to release a car I can afford first :tongue:.
-Shark2k
Ouch! That's about $900 per service call for me! My Father-in-law has a trailer that can haul the car and we have an SUV that can pull it...I suspect I'll be hauling to Chicago well before paying a fee like that for a service call.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
This can't be right -- if you want to sell at least 20,000 mid-priced cars, and tens of thousands of even cheaper cars (Bluestar, the minivan etc.), you can't charge people hundreds of dollars if they don't live in one of the dozen or so cities in the US that will have a Tesla dealership. Maybe they'll have a $100 minimum charge for this, but they should also have a maximum or something. And I'm saying this as someone who will live about 5-10 miles from the Miami store.
I really have a hard time believing that this is the business model -- if you're living on a relatively tight budget, who would want to buy a car that every time it needs service you have to pay hundreds of dollars if you live very far from the nearest dealership? Tesla has, so far, only had to deal with people who generally (one can assume) have disposable income where a few hundred dollars doesn't mean that much to them, but if they really want to become a mass auto maker, they'll need to come up with a more economical way of servicing the cars sold outside of the areas where they have stores.
Perhaps they'll have trained technicians in more places than just where there are stores? That might be one solution.
I certainly expect that, eventually, they'll expand their service centers to reduce the average distance to their more rural owners. St. Louis, for me, would reduce that round trip charge to only about $300 and would be quite central for many midwestern buyers.
But I realized, when I put my deposit down, that I would be far away from any convenient service. I'll probably keep my Prius or some other ICE vehicle as a back-up in case of catastrophic breakdown of my Tesla. I'll ship or tow the car for service, or just "eat" the cost. It doesn't seem fair in some ways, but it's part of the price you pay as a rural early adopter. And I'm willing to accept that.
Arnold Panz
Model Sig 304, VIN 542
It seems, from the recent blog post, that they're going to have technicians based regionally, and not just at stores. It makes sense -- it puts too many people out of reach for convenient or affordable service. The blog post on the TM website even mentions Alaska and Hawaii -- can you imagine the per/mile charge for a trip from Menlo Park to those owners?:biggrin:
I guess there's a bit of a chicken & egg thing going on here. Who, in Alaska, is going to buy a Tesla if there's no nearby service center available...but how does Tesla justify the cost of a service center there if there are no owners? That's the extreme example, but even me in the rural midwest where there are maybe 2-3 Teslas within 200 miles of St. Louis it's even hard then to justify all the cost, training of technicians, diagnostic and repair equipment, etc.
Not saying it's not possible, but I can't really imagine they're going to roll those out until after the Model S is on the road.
roblab
Active Member
EVan,
I think a lot of people like you, and like me once upon a time, worried about not having a "service center" within a few miles. Then I bought an EV. The "service center'' where I bought the car would joke about disabling my car (easy enough to do: a screwdriver between a couple components, etc.) since the Manufacturer, Toyota, didn't want them on the road. Finally, at 30K miles, I took it in and they... rotated the tires. That was all there was to do. Hmmmm. Who needs a service center? At 60K miles I had them add a little freon to the A/C. That was all.
It seems to me that Tesla knows that EVs are NOT going to need this humongous service/parts network (which generates 40% of their profits) that gas cars must have to stay driving down the road. My wife's gas car just went in for service a few weeks ago, and it was $500 before we left. Just routine maintenance. It isn't the rich and famous who can afford hundred dollar fees to get their car fixed.
When people figure this out, it won't be a big deal to be 200 miles from St. Louis (I lived in Columbia 20 years). If Tesla will send a tech every 5 years or so to do a readout and upgrade the software, that probably will do it.
Rob
I'd point out that the Seattle store is the closest to Alaska, and the LA store is the closest to Hawaii, so owners in those states can save thousands!!!:tongue:
Don't misinterpret me, I agree that EV's are much less likely to break down than conventional vehicles...I'm not "worried" in that sense at all. And I realize that very little servicing is needed.
But there will be breakdowns...and the more cars sold the more that will break down. And if service is exceptionally expensive or hard to get to that will be a negative for the future of EVs and Tesla.
It's just a matter of finding the right balance of cost, location and convenience.
roblab
Active Member
Fully agree. The problem is, though, that those who have lived with gas cars all their lives don't see that the expense is WAY more often. Like filling up with fuel. $50 a week is no problem. No one sees that the fuel could buy a new car in ten years. Maintenance is the same. The dealer wants your car in every 5K miles. It's only a few bucks. And a day dropping off the car, waiting, trying to get a few errands done, waiting. Unless you happen to have your wife or kid or employee do it. Then it's free. Two things cross my mind: One, Rolls Royce used to have a fabled service where the guy came to your house and serviced your car. And
Two, BMW includes the first 5 years' service in the cost of the car, so it doesn't seem to be as expensive: You still sit and wait.
It's all about *percieved* value. $200 for a service call might be considered cheap.
And it's not a problem with what *you* understand, but all the other people that read your frequent intelligent posts. They then begin to see this as a problem, because they think you do, IMHO.
Rob
A while back I needed to move a car, one way 900 Km or 560 Miles and was quoted Aus $300 if the car was mobile but $500 if the car was not.
So the cost for rural service might be OK but if your Tesla is left immobile by a fault then it may become quite expensive.
So the cost for rural service might be OK but if your Tesla is left immobile by a fault then it may become quite expensive.
I think Tesla is going to have to figure this problem out eventually. Right now I think Tesla is too inundated with getting the car actually produced and filling the reservations it already has. Service is an issue, not just in Hawaii or Alaska, but for any place that is not within a couple hundred miles from a service center (or in this case, a location of a Ranger). Tesla will definitely have to expand its network of Rangers. Even at 200 miles away, that's a 3-4 hour trip, or a full day round trip to drive whether it is the customer or the Ranger that makes the trip.
Tesla probably could sell a lot more cars if they figure out this problem. It will be interesting to see how it develops. Tesla will have some growing pains.
As for your situation, IMO I think you should wait until this problem is solved before you buy a Tesla.
Tesla is looking at 4 different scales of service centers. Level one is a minimum site to a level 4 which is bigger than any service center currently built.
From what I understand Hawaii would get the minimal package since it seems to be based on cars in a geographic area. I was not told when but Tesla will be doubling the current count by the end of this year.
I was imagining the small version was something small like a one car garage and not even permanently manned by a Tesla employee. This is my own half baked idea based on what I was told.
From what I understand Hawaii would get the minimal package since it seems to be based on cars in a geographic area. I was not told when but Tesla will be doubling the current count by the end of this year.
I was imagining the small version was something small like a one car garage and not even permanently manned by a Tesla employee. This is my own half baked idea based on what I was told.
Alaska
As to the comment about who would buy a Tesla in Alaska. I believe there is one Roadster up here and, I put a deposit down on a Model S. Yes, service is a very real concern. It would be about 4000.00 to have a ranger come up to have the car serviced. I approached Tesla about training to some level so I could do the service on my own car and, possibly others as they are purchased until a service center could be established. I have not had a positive response to date regarding that offer.
I was told that to be a service tech one had to have ASE 1-8. Four of those eight relate to ICE vehicles so would have no relevance to an EV. My training is as an aircraft mechanic. If you look at the training required in the systems for aircraft mechanics it far exceeds the ASE requirements and training. I looked at the ASE sample tests and they were very basic. A lot of the questions present a problem and tech A says this is the problem and fix. Tech B says this is the problem or fix. Then the answers are A is correct, B is correct, Both are correct, Neither is correct.
If a tech locally cannot be trained to do at least simple servicing and the 12000 mile/ one year check then, possibly another dealership could assume the task. Tesla already has partners they are selling components to. Perhaps one of those service centers already established will be able to service remote customers.
I was also told that Tesla will have a service plan soon and are looking at this problem/ issue. It does need to be fully addressed or it will for sure be a deal killer for me as I cannot justify nearly 4000.00 dollars for a one year 12000 mile service call let alone what could possibly happen in the future. It would be 8 percent of the cars value for the low price model every time you had a service issue.
I spoke with one Roadster owner who did have 4 issues in one year. He recommended that until something firm, affordable and concrete was made available it would probably be best to hold off on purchasing a Tesla at this time. My reservation is not for almost a year and I do have the one time deferal so it may be that by that time there will be more owners or, a service plan in place for long distance owners.
As to the comment about who would buy a Tesla in Alaska. I believe there is one Roadster up here and, I put a deposit down on a Model S. Yes, service is a very real concern. It would be about 4000.00 to have a ranger come up to have the car serviced. I approached Tesla about training to some level so I could do the service on my own car and, possibly others as they are purchased until a service center could be established. I have not had a positive response to date regarding that offer.
I was told that to be a service tech one had to have ASE 1-8. Four of those eight relate to ICE vehicles so would have no relevance to an EV. My training is as an aircraft mechanic. If you look at the training required in the systems for aircraft mechanics it far exceeds the ASE requirements and training. I looked at the ASE sample tests and they were very basic. A lot of the questions present a problem and tech A says this is the problem and fix. Tech B says this is the problem or fix. Then the answers are A is correct, B is correct, Both are correct, Neither is correct.
If a tech locally cannot be trained to do at least simple servicing and the 12000 mile/ one year check then, possibly another dealership could assume the task. Tesla already has partners they are selling components to. Perhaps one of those service centers already established will be able to service remote customers.
I was also told that Tesla will have a service plan soon and are looking at this problem/ issue. It does need to be fully addressed or it will for sure be a deal killer for me as I cannot justify nearly 4000.00 dollars for a one year 12000 mile service call let alone what could possibly happen in the future. It would be 8 percent of the cars value for the low price model every time you had a service issue.
I spoke with one Roadster owner who did have 4 issues in one year. He recommended that until something firm, affordable and concrete was made available it would probably be best to hold off on purchasing a Tesla at this time. My reservation is not for almost a year and I do have the one time deferal so it may be that by that time there will be more owners or, a service plan in place for long distance owners.
How expensive or time consuming would it be for you to take those ASE 1-8 exams? I guess it would only be worth it if they were willing to hire you at least part time to service cars in Alaska and you were willing to do so of course.
I started to look into the cost and time. The problem is that I am currently working in China for the year until next March. ASE has only a limited number of test centers, none in China. I have sent several emails to them inquiring as to the possibility of taking the tests here. I have not received one reply to several emails in as many weeks.
To answer the question though, I could easily study as they have test prep guides available and, take the tests at one of their test centers when I get back to the states. Since I am self employed I can also meet the work requirements to get the ASE certificate. It really looks like a fairly loose set of standards. I am surprised that Tesla wants you to have those certifications at all. If one is trained in hydralics, brakes, steering, electronics, heating and airconditioning systems as all aircraft mechanics are, why then do you need ICE/ASE certifications?
Aircraft had antibrake and complicated steering and electronics long before they had them in the automobile industry. You have to be trained in type specific aircraft and systems in many cases. They have gotten so complicated that even in the military you are not a mechanic for all aspects as you were in the past, you get trained for the one speciality and do recurrent training to keep up with all the latest upgrades.
It seems to me that comparing EV's and the training needed with ICE is not a good way to start this industry. I would think that you need to have a seperate set of training and standards. Even first responders have to have specific training when dealing with responding to an EV versus and ICE.
To answer the question though, I could easily study as they have test prep guides available and, take the tests at one of their test centers when I get back to the states. Since I am self employed I can also meet the work requirements to get the ASE certificate. It really looks like a fairly loose set of standards. I am surprised that Tesla wants you to have those certifications at all. If one is trained in hydralics, brakes, steering, electronics, heating and airconditioning systems as all aircraft mechanics are, why then do you need ICE/ASE certifications?
Aircraft had antibrake and complicated steering and electronics long before they had them in the automobile industry. You have to be trained in type specific aircraft and systems in many cases. They have gotten so complicated that even in the military you are not a mechanic for all aspects as you were in the past, you get trained for the one speciality and do recurrent training to keep up with all the latest upgrades.
It seems to me that comparing EV's and the training needed with ICE is not a good way to start this industry. I would think that you need to have a seperate set of training and standards. Even first responders have to have specific training when dealing with responding to an EV versus and ICE.
My annual service is due next month. It will cost me $600 to have a ranger come here to do the service, on top of the $600 for the service itself. I knew it would be expensive, and I decided the Roadster was worth it, so I'm not complaining. But for Model S sales it will be a real issue, and I doubt there will be any Bluestar sales without a local service center, since Nissan sells the Leaf here, with local service.
The drive from Spokane to Seattle is around 4 1/2 hours and would require a stop to charge. I would not need a full charge, so maybe 3 hours at 9.6 kW would be sufficient. Basically an all-day drive, including 3 hours of twiddling my thumbs waiting for the car to charge in the middle of nowhere. I don't like to drive at night, and the service takes about a full day, so I'd need to spend 2 nights in Seattle. I don't want to stay in a flea-bag motel, and a decent hotel plus meals for two nights would end up saving me about $150 compared to the cost of paying them to send a Ranger here. The inconvenience isn't worth it.
Again, I made my decision and I accept the expense, to be able to drive this amazing car. But if Tesla wants to become a major car company, they'll have to provide major-company service, which means no more than a half-hour drive to the nearest service center from within any average-size city. In the long term (before Bluestar) they need a service center in Spokane.
The drive from Spokane to Seattle is around 4 1/2 hours and would require a stop to charge. I would not need a full charge, so maybe 3 hours at 9.6 kW would be sufficient. Basically an all-day drive, including 3 hours of twiddling my thumbs waiting for the car to charge in the middle of nowhere. I don't like to drive at night, and the service takes about a full day, so I'd need to spend 2 nights in Seattle. I don't want to stay in a flea-bag motel, and a decent hotel plus meals for two nights would end up saving me about $150 compared to the cost of paying them to send a Ranger here. The inconvenience isn't worth it.
Again, I made my decision and I accept the expense, to be able to drive this amazing car. But if Tesla wants to become a major car company, they'll have to provide major-company service, which means no more than a half-hour drive to the nearest service center from within any average-size city. In the long term (before Bluestar) they need a service center in Spokane.
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