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Russia/Ukraine conflict

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Wishful thinking. They can buy most factory parts through intermediaries, or just buy copies directly from China. Taxes are an abstraction in a closed economy that runs a surplus.

There will be disruptions and inconveniences, but local brands will fill much of the void. For that matter, what's to stop them from nationalizing and re-opening McDonald's and Coca-Cola?

Because Nationalizing will be suicidal, it’ll mean no company will feel safe about investing in Russia, ever again. It’s a nuclear move that will end up eating Russia like cancer. If it’s so easy for Russia to get parts then why are they struggling to get tires for their military, why aren’t they getting enough chips for smart bombs? Why are they struggling to get food for their soldiers? Machine guns instead of WW2 rifles.

You must not have seen my earlier post about China being terrified of western sanctions, let me put it here again:

Chinese oil and gas company cancels $500m investment in Russia


Regarding your comment about business as usual in Russia: it’s business as usual until items run out. Russians will get some of their products internally, but it’ll cost more, higher end appliances or products like Louis Vuitton are no more. It’ll take decades to ramp up production, this is globalization we’re living in, every country is dependent on others for something. What’s taking tesla so dang long to ramp up to 20 million cars per year? We only need thousands of parts, Russia is in need of millions of parts to fill the void. When we went through Covid we were getting supplies, exports and imports were still operating, this is not the case in Russia. That’s the difference.

Russia is bluffing on nearly every word they speak:


And finally, in order to sustain a ramp up in production, investments has to be made, you can’t make investments for future growth when the state will be struggling to pay employees, it’s soldiers, dead/wounded compensation and financing this expensive war. Putin is leaving his soldiers to die in the field because it’s cheaper than bringing them back home, their entire state depends on selling gas, but what happens when western countries cut future consumption:


It’s a slow burn, and I know Putin and Russia is hurting right now. People are shopping at malls in hope that they can make purchases to flip that item around for a higher price when inflation rises. When inflation is 20%, you make purchases to get rid of cash and hang onto electronic goods, appliances, etc. just like Venezuela:


They can’t even get parts of their tanks:


If it’s so easy to replace parts, why does Russia struggle with tank production? Their tank lines are reported to have halted:



It took 2 years after their botched war in Afghanistan for the Soviet Union to disappear, I expect the Russian economy to also endure a few years before faltering.
 
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Yep. Anyone remember Afghanistan? As soon as the US contractors left, the planes left in Afghanistan quickly became scrap metal because they simply have no effective means to maintain the planes themselves. The Afghan army quickly lost air power and the air force never played a significant role as a result in the later stages.

This also calls into question how a maintenance infrastructure can be set up in Ukraine in the first place (are we sending US contractors into an active warzone?) So I think all the talk about F16s and F15s remain pie in the sky. I think working things out to secretly send in MIG-29s remains the most viable option (and hopefully the request for American jets are smokescreens while this is happening behind the scenes).
The things that are reltively low profile and easy to move and high value are the Soviet-era missiles, both for the existing/remaining Ukraine aircraft and their medium range SAM systems (Bukh, S300). From memory there are stocks of these variously in Poland, Czech, Bulgaria, Romania. It is possible that these are moving quietly whilst the public hoo-haa is about the bigger ticket items.

The Ukraine are quite capable technically-speaking in the aerospace and defence-industrial sectors with organic design and manufacturing capabilities and research and education capabilities. Including gas turbine design & build, airframe, weapons, opto/electronics, guidance, armour, etc. Far more so than many operators of F16 and (to a lesser extent) F15 around the world. Provided that there is a logistics pipeline with spares in it they would be capable of doing everything required after initial training. That in fact is one of the concerns about transferring them this stuff .....
 
Hard to say in the regions that the Russians have controlled since 2014. Those people have been subject to Russian propaganda and less news from the outside world, so they might be more brainwashed.

There are actual separatists that have been fighting in Donbas, but quite a few of the so called separatists have actually been Russians. I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few were Wagner group guys.

I do think taking back those regions militarily even in a complete military collapse of Russia scenario would be more difficult. The parts of Ukraine that have been Ukrainian since 2014 that were taken in the last 6 weeks see themselves clearly as Ukrainian now and they enthusiastically welcome the Ukrainians when they return.

The regions that Russia stole probably have more of a mix of loyalties now. In a collapse of Russia's economy, the Crimea might be more interested in going back to Ukraine because Ukraine will be showing more stability. Who knows about the regions Russia has been fighting over for 8 years.
The Russian-occupied Donbass areas are now largely depopulated of everyone who is/was pro-Ukraine unless they were too old & poor to get out since 2014. That is one of the big difficulties in holding a referendum(s), i.e. who is eligible to vote and what about their children etc. Similarly so in Crimea though that is a different situation. (My neighbour is actually from Ukraine, but this is stuff I have been following for a long time).

It is well documented (Bellingcat et al) that Russia was using Wagner, Chechnya and other mercenary troops in Donbass & Crimea, as well as 'regular' Russian troops and other personnel (KGB/GRU/etc) both in their correct uniforms and in other clothing. This has been a deception play from the very beginning (well before 2014).

Ditto for Ossetia, Ingushetia, Transystria ....
 
Best sitrep today ,keep a close eye on Izium and Kherson areas imho.

 
How small businesses are currently struggling in Russia:


Russians are facing a slew of economic problems, from a shortage of paper — it’s bring your own to many clinics for printing diagnostic reports — to a lack of Western medicines, spare parts and computer chips. Last week, the price of staple goods in Russia soared 14 percent in a single week, according to the Federal State Statistics Service. Panic buying of sugar erupted as its price increased by more than 37 percent, triggering an official anti-monopoly probe. An analysis by Vneshekonom Bank Institute issued on March 22 predicted that real wages would fall by 12 percent this year, unemployment would hit 6.2 percent and inflation would reach 19.3 percent by the end of the year.

Since late February, his richest clients have been disappearing too. One wealthy client, who works in logistics, canceled a renovation project “because his business was falling apart,” Kukkoyev said. Another canceled because sanctions had hurt his business. A third broke his contact because he could no longer afford expensive fittings.
 
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Five weeks into President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, there are signs that the Russian public’s initial shock has given way to a mix of support for their troops and anger at the West.
Not a surprise at all, basically what I was arguing about autocracies that have strong control of their media. It's not hard to make people believe the propaganda about a war in such a system (or at least make it so voices of dissent get squashed). In a democracy, voices of dissent are allowed to air and there is a correction that happens even if the initial information was found to be wrong (as it did in the Iraq war). This doesn't happen in autocracies (as such I doubt there are many people in Russia today that feel the annexation of Crimea back in 2014 was not justified).
Russia/Ukraine conflict

Of course, that is with the caveat it's hard to do a useful opinion poll in a country where people fear they may go to jail for expressing honest views (as per article it was mentioned this was done as a phone interview, and people may fear consequences talking to a stranger about this). [My underline].
This. The underlined part which is only visible if you expand the stopcracypp quote above...

There's also a lot of good counterarguments in that article itself:

"
.../ [Analysts] argued that polls in wartime have limited significance, with many Russians fearful of voicing dissent, or even their true opinion, to a stranger at a time when new censorship laws are punishing any deviation from the Kremlin narrative with as much as 15 years in prison. /.../

Enthusiasm [as in support for the "special operation"] — I don’t see it,” said Sergei Belanovsky, a prominent Russian sociologist. “What I rather see is apathy.” /.../

On Wednesday, Lucy Stein, a member of the protest group Pussy Riot who sits on a municipal council in Moscow, found a photo of herself taped to her apartment door with a message printed on it: “Don’t sell your homeland.”

She said she suspected a secretive police unit was behind the attack /.../

Putin [has] signed legislation effectively criminalizing dissent over the war /.../

“These laws have been effective because they threaten people with prison terms,” [Boris Vishnevsky] said. “If not for this, then the change in public opinion would be rather clear, and it wouldn’t be to the benefit of the government.”

In a phone interview, a political analyst in Moscow, 45, described visiting police stations across the city in the past month after her teenage child’s repeated arrests at protests. Now, the teenager is receiving threats on social media, leading her to conclude that authorities had passed along her child’s name to people who bully activists online.

But she also found that the police officers she dealt with did not seem particularly aggressive, or enthusiastic about the war. Overall, she believed that most Russians were too scared to voice opposition, and were convinced that there was nothing they could do about it. She asked that her name not be published for fear of endangering her and her child.

“This is the state of someone who feels like a particle in the ocean,” she said. “Someone else has decided everything for them. This learned passivity is our tragedy.” [My underline].
"
 
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--> I think this Levada poll is a Kremlin psyops piece aimed at weakening Western support for the sanktions. I also believe the Levada director are being forced to participate in some way. Remember: How many political opponents have Putin murdered with poison or by other means?...

".../ Some [analysts] also argued that polls in wartime have limited significance, with many Russians fearful of voicing dissent, or even their true opinion, to a stranger at a time when new censorship laws are punishing any deviation from the Kremlin narrative with as much as 15 years in prison.

But even accounting for that effect, Denis Volkov, Levada’s director, said his group’s surveys showed that many Russians had adopted the belief that a besieged Russia had to rally around its leader.

Particularly effective in that regard, he said, was the steady drumbeat of Western sanctions, with airspace closures, visa restrictions and the departure of popular companies like McDonald’s and Ikea feeding the Kremlin line that the West is waging an economic war on the Russian people.

“The confrontation with the West has consolidated people,” Volkov said.
[My underline] /..."

 
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Interesting wonder how Germany will manage without 40% gas🤔
Typically, the Express is taking a piece of information and presenting it in a misleading way.
Gazprom pulling out of the German market does not mean their gas supply has been cut by Putin.
What's happened is Gazprom has pulled out of the German company Gazprom Germania GmbH. The gas storage facilities are in Germany and will be taken over by someone else.
There seems to be a belief that there's one big pipe supplying gas from Russia to Germany and Putin can turn the big tap off just like that.
It's more complex than that but Express readers presumably don't have the capacity to understand complex situations.

I really wish sources such as the Express and Daily Fail wouldn't be quoted in these forums. I'd like to think this place is better than that.
 
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Because Nationalizing will be suicidal, it’ll mean no company will feel safe about investing in Russia, ever again. It’s a nuclear move that will end up eating Russia like cancer. If it’s so easy for Russia to get parts then why are they struggling to get tires for their military, why aren’t they getting enough chips for smart bombs? Why are they struggling to get food for their soldiers? Machine guns instead of WW2 rifles.

You must not have seen my earlier post about China being terrified of western sanctions, let me put it here again:

Chinese oil and gas company cancels $500m investment in Russia


Regarding your comment about business as usual in Russia: it’s business as usual until items run out. Russians will get some of their products internally, but it’ll cost more, higher end appliances or products like Louis Vuitton are no more. It’ll take decades to ramp up production, this is globalization we’re living in, every country is dependent on others for something. What’s taking tesla so dang long to ramp up to 20 million cars per year? We only need thousands of parts, Russia is in need of millions of parts to fill the void. When we went through Covid we were getting supplies, exports and imports were still operating, this is not the case in Russia. That’s the difference.

Russia is bluffing on nearly every word they speak:


And finally, in order to sustain a ramp up in production, investments has to be made, you can’t make investments for future growth when the state will be struggling to pay employees, it’s soldiers, dead/wounded compensation and financing this expensive war. Putin is leaving his soldiers to die in the field because it’s cheaper than bringing them back home, their entire state depends on selling gas, but what happens when western countries cut future consumption:


It’s a slow burn, and I know Putin and Russia is hurting right now. People are shopping at malls in hope that they can make purchases to flip that item around for a higher price when inflation rises. When inflation is 20%, you make purchases to get rid of cash and hang onto electronic goods, appliances, etc. just like Venezuela:


They can’t even get parts of their tanks:


If it’s so easy to replace parts, why does Russia struggle with tank production? Their tank lines are reported to have halted:



It took 2 years after their botched war in Afghanistan for the Soviet Union to disappear, I expect the Russian economy to also endure a few years before faltering.

Another translation from the FSB analyst who goes by WindOf Change
Igor Sushko - #FSBletters from the Wind of Change inside the FSB (KGB) - Racing & Beyond

This letter was from March 16. A few points of note, the Russians had planned to have mass pro-Russia protests in Ukraine and the FSB spent billions of dollars to recruit actors who pocketed the money and never showed up. (The billions was mentioned in another letter I think.)

This guy is expecting protests soon, and he doesn't think the internal police will be able to contain them

"- OMON (riot police), police, Rosgvardia (National Guard), and all the rest. Let me tell you a military secret: when there are large-scale rallies in Moscow or St. Petersburg, we have to gather forces from all over the country."

"But the situation also cannot be controlled without transitioning to domestic fascism: In essence the country is already governed by martial law, it’ll get much worse.

"We have 3 months left even under extremely favorable conditions until we reach this crisis, which is difficult to even imagine. 3 months – is the boundary with the most ideal preconditions, beyond which is not yet rock-bottom, but the beginning of real problems. Happens sooner – I believe it, later (than 3 months from now) – no way."

This is from an FSB analyst who looks at these sorts of things for a living. Max 3 months until Russia goes through some massive turmoil.

Oh and the price of sugar is going up because of the army. I saw a video done by a Ukrainian unloading a captured Russian backpack. He said that when soldiers are on the march, they need a lot of extra energy. Most armies provide things like energy bars and even some candy bars. But Russia uses only one thing: white sugar in little packets of 10g each. He commented in an aside that all these guys are going to get diabetes.

The Russian-occupied Donbass areas are now largely depopulated of everyone who is/was pro-Ukraine unless they were too old & poor to get out since 2014. That is one of the big difficulties in holding a referendum(s), i.e. who is eligible to vote and what about their children etc. Similarly so in Crimea though that is a different situation. (My neighbour is actually from Ukraine, but this is stuff I have been following for a long time).

It is well documented (Bellingcat et al) that Russia was using Wagner, Chechnya and other mercenary troops in Donbass & Crimea, as well as 'regular' Russian troops and other personnel (KGB/GRU/etc) both in their correct uniforms and in other clothing. This has been a deception play from the very beginning (well before 2014).

Ditto for Ossetia, Ingushetia, Transystria ....

Yes Russians masquerading as separatists have been bulking out the rebels since the beginning. If Russia descends into chaos at the end of this war, a truly fair election might go Ukraine's way even if the occupied Donbas has been depopulated of pro-Ukrainians.

If they allow displaced residents of those regions to vote too, it would likely go in Ukraine's favor by a healthy margin.

Zelensky is for a referendum, but Putin is against a free and fair election (the Russians have talked about a Russian style election). That's probably an indication how both men think this will go if put to a real vote.

We're still a long ways from any proposed solution for Donbas and Crimea becoming a reality.

This. The underlined part which is only visible if you expand the stopcracypp quote above...

There's also a lot of good counterarguments in that article itself:

"
.../ [Analysts] argued that polls in wartime have limited significance, with many Russians fearful of voicing dissent, or even their true opinion, to a stranger at a time when new censorship laws are punishing any deviation from the Kremlin narrative with as much as 15 years in prison. /.../

Enthusiasm [as in support for the "special operation"] — I don’t see it,” said Sergei Belanovsky, a prominent Russian sociologist. “What I rather see is apathy.” /.../

On Wednesday, Lucy Stein, a member of the protest group Pussy Riot who sits on a municipal council in Moscow, found a photo of herself taped to her apartment door with a message printed on it: “Don’t sell your homeland.”

She said she suspected a secretive police unit was behind the attack /.../

Putin [has] signed legislation effectively criminalizing dissent over the war /.../

“These laws have been effective because they threaten people with prison terms,” [Boris Vishnevsky] said. “If not for this, then the change in public opinion would be rather clear, and it wouldn’t be to the benefit of the government.”

In a phone interview, a political analyst in Moscow, 45, described visiting police stations across the city in the past month after her teenage child’s repeated arrests at protests. Now, the teenager is receiving threats on social media, leading her to conclude that authorities had passed along her child’s name to people who bully activists online.

But she also found that the police officers she dealt with did not seem particularly aggressive, or enthusiastic about the war. Overall, she believed that most Russians were too scared to voice opposition, and were convinced that there was nothing they could do about it. She asked that her name not be published for fear of endangering her and her child.

“This is the state of someone who feels like a particle in the ocean,” she said. “Someone else has decided everything for them. This learned passivity is our tragedy.” [My underline].
"

Dictator's want their followers to be motivated to show their support and they want apathy from everyone else. Apathy (along with heavy drug use) is what happens when people's spirit is crushed. They give in to whatever is happening because of learned helplessness.


Interesting wonder how Germany will manage without 40% gas🤔

Germany is working hard to shift to other sources. Among the sources, the US is encouraging all the closed in wells to be put back online and produce as much gas and oil as possible. The US's current LNG terminal capacity is equal to about 80% of what Europe buys from Russia now.

On another note, I came across this today
UAWarData

It's produced by this person
https://twitter.com/HN_Schlottman

This is probably not comprehensive, but it only appears about 54 BTGs are active in Ukraine right now. That's down from 120-125 at the start of the war. Some are probably just not accounted for yet, but it's possible about 1/2 Russia's starting force has been withdrawn or ceased to exist at this point (most probably still exist, but are shells of the former unit). Schlottman estimates there are actually 60-70 BTGs still in the field.

There are a lot of BTGs in that salient east of Kyiv. I would think cutting those units off would be a good move to strangle a fairly good sized force.
 

Ex-Russian official says Putin's days are numbered​

Apr 2, 2022
Vladimir Milov, a former Russian deputy energy minister and now an adviser to opposition leader Alexy Navalny, argues that Putin's days in office are numbered because of the backlash to his invasion of Ukraine.
I suppose he is biased since he is an avisor to Navalny. But then again – doesn't everyone have a bias?...
The talk about Putin's 'future prospects' start at around 3:37.

 
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Apr 2, 2022
Former Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul tells MSNBC’s Jonathan Capehart that he thinks it’s “highly unlikely” that Vladimir Putin would want to expand this war in response to potentially the first Ukrainian attack on Russian soil, adding the U.S. should keep sending weapons to Ukraine despite fears Putin might escalate the war: “The only way there will be peace in Ukraine is if there is a military stalemate.” [My underline.]

 
Ruble is within a few percent of where it was in January. Exports are probably higher than a couple years ago, and imports are down.


Like Americans at the start of Covid, it's just panic buying. The Russian travel vlog girl someone posted a few days ago went through a huge mall. Western-branded stores were closed and prices were way up for some imported foods, but otherwise it was business as usual.


That's not how it works. Even with sanctions Russia is running a huge trade surplus.


Wishful thinking. They can buy most factory parts through intermediaries, or just buy copies directly from China. Taxes are an abstraction in a closed economy that runs a surplus.

There will be disruptions and inconveniences, but local brands will fill much of the void. For that matter, what's to stop them from nationalizing and re-opening McDonald's and Coca-Cola?
There are a handful of misconceptions here:
Ruble FX: rates established now by Russian Central Bank and, for Oil &gas, Gazprombank. Open market rates were a few weeks ago at R130 to US$,: when open markets stopped, mostly, were replaced by official rates, buy side only.

panic buying: true but also major shortages. you did not me nation shipping/transport. Those are severely restricted.

trade surplus: true, imports halted, oil and gas exports going on.

Local brands: uncle Vanya replaced McDonalds, Marriott continues, but: leased aircraft re-registered as Russian, cannot operate outside Russia control.

You must be getting you information from RT, or their western surrogates.
 
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Typically, the Express is taking a piece of information and presenting it in a misleading way.
Gazprom pulling out of the German market does not mean their gas supply has been cut by Putin.
What's happened is Gazprom has pulled out of the German company Gazprom Germania GmbH. The gas storage facilities are in Germany and will be taken over by someone else.
There seems to be a belief that there's one big pipe supplying gas from Russia to Germany and Putin can turn the big tap off just like that.
It's more complex than that but Express readers presumably don't have the capacity to understand complex situations.

I really wish sources such as the Express and Daily Fail wouldn't be quoted in these forums. I'd like to think this place is better than that.
I read from a variety of sources, haven’t found an unbiased one yet in terms of official / traditional news organisations tbf but hey if it get’s a rise out of someone then I’ll keep chucking them in 😈. There’s 2 pipelines from Russia to Germany so 2 big taps🤣.


Accroding to most Germans posting as individuals though the general consensus is “Russia can go eff themselves, we’ll wear big coats all winter rather than pay in rubles”.
 
I read from a variety of sources, haven’t found an unbiased one yet in terms of official / traditional news organisations tbf but hey if it get’s a rise out of someone then I’ll keep chucking them in 😈. There’s 2 pipelines from Russia to Germany so 2 big taps🤣.


Accroding to most Germans posting as individuals though the general consensus is “Russia can go eff themselves, we’ll wear big coats all winter rather than pay in rubles”.
The point I'm making is there isn't one supply line and one provider. There's storage and other sources but the Express over simplifies it so they can generate a sensationalist headline. The correct figure Gazprom are responsible for isn't correct either. It's 20% not 40%.

If you're posting unfactual information just to "get a rise out of someone" I'd call that trolling myself, but hey you carry on if it amuses you. Luckily, we have the ignore function for that.
 
The point I'm making is there isn't one supply line and one provider. There's storage and other sources but the Express over simplifies it so they can generate a sensationalist headline. The correct figure Gazprom are responsible for isn't correct either. It's 20% not 40%.

If you're posting unfactual information just to "get a rise out of someone" I'd call that trolling myself, but hey you carry on if it amuses you. Luckily, we have the ignore function for that.


Russian gas (not necessarily Gazprom) accounts for 32 - 40% of German requirements, German gas storage is primarily owned by Gazprom (according to Reuters). Maybe you have different figures by being inside the industry I don’t know but posting your own figure of 20% without backing it up is like me saying the moon is made of cheese Gromit. Maybe quantify it with your own sources of information in future.

Maybe the “getting a rise” comment was a bit harsh and I shouldn’t have said that, so apologies. I do find it strange how blinkered some are on here though, yes newspapers sensationalise, it’s how they sell papers, much like car manufacturers posting range or mpg figures that are unachievable in real life. Please feel free to ignore me if you wish, I’ve done the same with one person in this thread too👍🏻

Enjoy life, you only get one shot at it and a lot of *sugar* happens that you personally can do nothing about, like Brexit, tax rises, Putin deciding to attack Ukraine etc etc. Chill, it’s not worth losing sleep over 😉, unless you live in Ukraine or have family there🤷🏼‍♂️ (I hope you don’t)
 
(Personally I can do someting about Brexit - shut the UK business down, lay everyone off, spend my time outside the UK, pay little or no tax in the UK, avoid the 52% who voted for it wherever possible, and make sure to only vote for parties who aim to Rejoin or otherwise reverse the stupidity).

Why anyone uses that filthy rag for even cat litter is beyond me. And anybody who quotes from it should understand that stupidity is contagious. Brexit is proof enough of that.

Meanwhile here is the main gas network diagram

Here is recent German gas use

And here is the IEA's plan to cut out Russian gas and oil and coal, which is pretty much what is going into effect pronto !

And, if I hear correctly (but I am not certain of this) the gas lines going into Ukraine are currently in reverse flow, that was one of the things the EU invested in after the 2014 invasion by Russia. I think the Polish ones are as well at the moment.

Any company (like the Gazprom subsidiaries) that does not fill up their storage will get taken over and nationalised in all the EU member states. Rumours are that the Gazprom subsidiary in the UK is also on the verge of being called into special measures for much the same reasons as they can't buy any gas, and their banks and customers don't want them.