Russia/Ukraine conflict

[madodel]

I thought this was a bit odd. Maybe borrow @Artful Dodger ’s use of the term Kabuki Theatre, then again, maybe it is just as it seems - a microcosm of daily life in Russia. Still what must those who are the primary audience think? And it lays bare the raw truth of elites don’t have to fight, and ethnic minorities have no worth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574865224108220423

Do you think any of them listened to what they said? Putin is at least fair to send everyone to die. Taking the old privileged dipsticks as well as decent people. The truly useless as well as the useful. Maybe they should be saying that the whole "meat grinder" needs to be stopped instead of just sending the "others" to die.

 

[navguy12]

I thought this was a bit odd. Maybe borrow @Artful Dodger ’s use of the term Kabuki Theatre, then again, maybe it is just as it seems - a microcosm of daily life in Russia. Still what must those who are the primary audience think? And it lays bare the raw truth of elites don’t have to fight, and ethnic minorities have no worth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574865224108220423

This could have been fit right in as some Second City sketch.

 

[Sandor]

I thought this was a bit odd. Maybe borrow @Artful Dodger ’s use of the term Kabuki Theatre, then again, maybe it is just as it seems - a microcosm of daily life in Russia. Still what must those who are the primary audience think? And it lays bare the raw truth of elites don’t have to fight, and ethnic minorities have no worth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574865224108220423

Do you think any of them listened to what they said? Putin is at least fair to send everyone to die. Taking the old privileged dipsticks as well as decent people. The truly useless as well as the useful. Maybe they should be saying that the whole "meat grinder" needs to be stopped instead of just sending the "others" to die.

You guys do realize that RealSubtitles @R82938886 it is a parody account, just like @DarthPutinKGB? Darn good parody at that, that's one of the top to date in my opinion

 

[Skipdd]

You guys do realize that RealSubtitles @R82938886 it is a parody account, just like @DarthPutinKGB? Darn good parody at that, that's one of the his top to date in my opinion

He got me - I did not. True confession - prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I was a non-Twitter user. Once I started seeing all the posts on this thread with embedded tweets, I crossed over and began reading the source material. Very slowly expanding what I look at, but still pretty green around who’s who. Thanks for pointing it out. Oh and for some more irony, I work in IT. I consider myself bi-modal - leading edge on some things like owning a Tesla, and reactionary for others. You just pointed out the consequence of one of those.

 

[nativewolf]

Do you think any of them listened to what they said? Putin is at least fair to send everyone to die. Taking the old privileged dipsticks as well as decent people. The truly useless as well as the useful. Maybe they should be saying that the whole "meat grinder" needs to be stopped instead of just sending the "others" to die.

He's not fair, not in the least. He's sending only minorities and provencials to die. Literally not a single unit from moscow despite that 1 city have a huge percent of the youth of russia.

 

[iPlug]

Guess one reason for RU to call up so many in the draft is for "blocking units." Those are units that prevent desertion, shoot deserters. It takes the concept of "kill the enemy or be killed" to another level: "kill the enemy or be killed by either him or us."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574784026380042241

 

[wdolson]

He got me - I did not. True confession - prior to the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I was a non-Twitter user. Once I started seeing all the posts on this thread with embedded tweets, I crossed over and began reading the source material. Very slowly expanding what I look at, but still pretty green around who’s who. Thanks for pointing it out. Oh and for some more irony, I work in IT. I consider myself bi-modal - leading edge on some things like owning a Tesla, and reactionary for others. You just pointed out the consequence of one of those.

Almost exactly my story. I can be way behind the curve on some things, and cutting edge on tech that makes sense to me.

Guess one reason for RU to call up so many in the draft is for "blocking units." Those are units that prevent desertion, shoot deserters. It takes the concept of "kill the enemy or be killed" to another level: "kill the enemy or be killed by either him or us."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574784026380042241

They probably won't have new conscripts in the blocking units, those will probably be the remains of Wagner.

 

[Tiger]

That's not a photo of the war. That's a photo of when Ukraine kicked out Yanukovych. That's the point. Ukrainians fought for their freedom. Iranians are fighting for their freedom. Instead of fighting the Putin regime most Russians are running.

Yes, but Iranians and Ukrainians back then are/were not being drafted to a meet grinder (which is the equivalent of a gas chamber in the past ...). Gotta put things into perspective.

 

[nwdiver]

Yes, but Iranians and Ukrainians back then are/were not being drafted to a meet grinder (which is the equivalent of a gas chamber in the past ...). Gotta put things into perspective.

.... doesn't.... doesn't that make Russians look even worse?

Ukrainians risked their lives in the streets to be more economically aligned with the west. Iranians to make head coverings optional. In Russia their neighbors, friends, husbands, brothers, sons and fathers are being marched to their deaths and their response is to flee?!

 

[Tiger]

.... doesn't.... doesn't that make Russians look even worse?

Ukrainians risked their lives in the streets to be more economically aligned with the west. Iranians to make head coverings optional. In Russia their neighbors, friends, husbands, brothers and fathers are being marched to their deaths and their response is to flee?!

Hmm.. you are comparing apples to oranges.

In Ukraine's Orange revolution 1 person died of heart attack according to wikipedia and Euromaidan Revolution of Dignity 100+ deaths.

In Iran I don't know the statistics, but people seem to be winning so people are (still) positive.

In Russia if you get drafted it's a death sentence and they already have 50000 dead and probably another same amount injured.

Here is a caricature picture I find funny about russia, but again, I don't know how much of it is staged or affected by undercover agents trained in crowd management:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572889832879280131

In addition, they (Russians) have been so brainwashed they are probably for the regime not against it (story about Russians trying to flee to Georgia been put to a lie detector test and failed (not sure if real or hoax)).

Here are some examples where it is unclear whether the opposing non-uniform people are undercover agents or simply (otherwise) brainwashed regular crowd:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574077167557672960

Here (in the lower video) you can clearly hear a non-uniform wearing man yell STOP (or NO) to the crowd (psychologically it will work better than an uniformed man saying stop):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574057907259424768

 

[nwdiver]

In Ukraine's Orange revolution 1 person died of heart attack according to wikipedia.

2014 not 2004. >100 people were killed many by snipers. That's my point with the Russians. Ukrainians would have been ripping those Berkuts apart THEN taking selfies.

 

[Tiger]

2014 not 2004. >100 people were killed many by snipers. That's my point with the Russians. Ukrainians would have been ripping those Berkuts apart THEN taking selfies.

There is difference in how the authorities respond. Thanks for correcting me on the Orange and Euromaidan revolutions, but they are still much smaller casualties than in Iran for example. Not comparable to facing a war. We shall see if the tide turns in Russia and if people feel they can make a change. But people have also been brainwashed that what they have is the best alternative.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Yes, but Iranians and Ukrainians back then are/were not being drafted to a meet grinder (which is the equivalent of a gas chamber in the past ...). Gotta put things into perspective.

.... doesn't.... doesn't that make Russians look even worse?

[1] Ukrainians risked their lives in the streets to be more economically aligned with the west. [2] Iranians to make head coverings optional. In Russia their neighbors, friends, husbands, brothers, sons and fathers are being marched to their deaths and their response is to flee?! [My numbers within square brackets.]

1. I think it was a lot more than to just be "economically aligned with the west." There has never been a Free and Democratic election on Russian soil ever. The Ukrainians new what they were in for if they didn't do their best to get rid of Dictator-Putin's puppet Yanukovych ASAP... The Russian/Soviet Dictators and their 'henchmen' had terrorized Ukraine for centuries before Ukraine was finally able to break free in 1991...

2. As I understand it the Iranians are also fighting for a lot more than just "to make head coverings optional"... These aren't the first big prostest in Iran... And all of them have tragically been violently crushed by the Dictatorial Theocratical Regime before this one. The Iranians are fighting to completely get rid of the Dictatorial Theocratical Regime.

More info here:

Iran protests - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[nwdiver]

1. I think it was a lot more than to just be "economically aligned with the west." There has never been a Free and Democratic election on Russian soil ever. The Ukrainians new what they were in for if they didn't do their best to get rid of Dictator-Putin's puppet Yanukovych ASAP... The Russian/Soviet Dictators and their 'henchmen' had terrorized Ukraine for centuries before Ukraine was finally able to break free in 1991...

2. As I understand it the Iranians are also fighting for a lot more than just "to make head coverings optional"... These aren't the first big prostest in Iran... Many have tragically been violently crushed by the Dictatorial Theocratical Regime before this one. The Iranians are fighting to completely get rid of the Dictatorial Theocratical Regime.

More info here:

Iran protests - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Didn't want to post a thesis.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

.../ In Iran I don't know the statistics, but people seem to be winning so people are (still) positive. /...

According to Wikipedia:

At least 76 killed (Iran Human Rights) as of 26th September[4][5]
Injuries​	898+[7]
Arrested​	1,200 people (per Tasnim News Agency)[8]

And those numbers are a little more than one day old...

I haven't really followed these latest protest, but I have a feeling that even if the Iranian people somehow succeed – a lot more innocent Iranians are going to die and get injured...

Source:

Mahsa Amini protests - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Tiger]

This is one mentality I really do not understand. EVERYONE has bias and we all present information from our frame of reference. It is called being human. Some are partially or completely disingenuous and purposefully present false information to achieve a goal. It as always been this way since the beginning of time.

Knowing the above, I assess what I am getting from one source and compare it with other sources to sus out my own "truth" then test that truth against reality as it plays out. In so doing, you start to understand each source's bias and how to consume information from them.

None of this is new. The only thing that appears new is that we have abandoned our obligation to critical thinking and forming an accurate view of reality that stands the test of time.

The above makes this thread so enjoyable. There are a good number of very bright people posting with vastly different points of view and experience base. I truly appreciate such a wide and varied source even if it is biased towards the Ukrainians (as I am so I must recognize my own confirmation bias).

It depends. Nytimes has great real-time election coverings, I give them that. But in general, if an outlet tries (and sometimes succeeds) in painting white black and black white, it raises the bar of what I take from them. It typically means that they will be pushing someone's agenda, someone who has money, rather than someone who doesn't. There is constant attempt to "move the middle ground":

 

[Tiger]

2014 not 2004. >100 people were killed many by snipers. That's my point with the Russians. Ukrainians would have been ripping those Berkuts apart THEN taking selfies.

On a side note, Americans are trying hard to fall for the same plot ("russian democracy"), time will tell:

 

[Artful Dodger]

I thought this was a bit odd. Maybe borrow @Artful Dodger ’s use of the term Kabuki Theatre, then again, maybe it is just as it seems - a microcosm of daily life in Russia. Still what must those who are the primary audience think? And it lays bare the raw truth of elites don’t have to fight, and ethnic minorities have no worth.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574865224108220423

Haha, that clip was awesom in the way in which it revealed their state of mind: I think the Russian term is vranyo. Here in N. America, we have a saying for this: "Payback's a bitch". Hope I get to see another video clip from that guy's funeral (if there's a body found that they can bury).

Budmo!

 

[Artful Dodger]

This could have been fit right in as some Second City sketch.

Da, if the First City was Stalingrad... /s

 

[Artful Dodger]

Guess one reason for RU to call up so many in the draft is for "blocking units." Those are units that prevent desertion, shoot deserters. It takes the concept of "kill the enemy or be killed" to another level: "kill the enemy or be killed by either him or us."

https://twitter.com/x/status/1574784026380042241

Beginning in WWI, these were formations called 'Barrage Battalions'. It is a old Soviet practice to prevent any retreat regardless of casualties. There's a dramatic scene showing their use in the 2001 movie "Enemy at the Gates" starring Jude Law.

Barrier troops in the Red Army | Wikipedia