RV Parks Charging

[darth_vad3r]

Why are folks rating this funny?
Sitting in the car causing the HVAC to run is knocking the charge rate down from 5miles to something around 2.

Maybe in relation to blowing the hair back and you came back with HVAC?

My question is why is @doghousePVD disagreeing with my explanation of what @Saghost was saying, when they came out and explained it afterwards and it's what I was saying

 

[doghousePVD]

Well they were implying the RV doesn’t actually use 240, but rather two 120’s ... and if the RV pedestal was “miswired”, then such an RV wouldn’t notice (unless they blew a fuse by pulling too much power). e.g. Pedestal A could use phase 1 hot, pedestal B could use phase 2 hot. Overall power draw would be balanced. As long as one RV isn’t trying to use more than 25 A on each half of their 120 V outlet usage it would be fine, right?

If the RV actually tried to use 240V for anything it of course wouldn’t work.

Like what if you just connected a 60 A breaker with appropriate gauge wire 120 V supply to a 14-50 outlet with the two hots jumpered in the receptacle box. This obviously does zero for EV charging, but would “work” for an RV that just feeds one phase 120V to half its accessories and outlets and the other phase 120V to the other half. It’s essential just acting as a splitter.

A little Googling, and I see there are some RV parks with fake 14-50 outlets, ie, do not have 240 V across the two hots. Never occurred to me. My comment above was off target. Sorry.

 

[darth_vad3r]

A little Googling, and I see there are some RV parks with fake 14-50 outlets, ie, do not have 240 V across the two hots. Never occurred to me. My comment above was off target. Sorry.

Ya, it's totally bogus and not to code (probably), but like @Rocky_H said, it exists.

So ... if you show up to one of these franken-RV-pedestals with a fake 14-50 ... and there's no 120V around, and you are at 1 mile of charge ... what kind of franken-adapter do you need to get a trickle charge from the 120V?

Does the Tesla UMC/14-50 figure out it's screwed and pull 120? or do you need to have a crazy 14-50 to 5-15 adapter to get 120V?

 

[justsomeguy]

Ya, it's totally bogus and not to code (probably), but like @Rocky_H said, it exists.

So ... if you show up to one of these franken-RV-pedestals with a fake 14-50 ... and there's no 120V around, and you are at 1 mile of charge ... what kind of franken-adapter do you need to get a trickle charge from the 120V?

Does the Tesla UMC/14-50 figure out it's screwed and pull 120? or do you need to have a crazy 14-50 to 5-15 adapter to get 120V?

If both hots are wired in from the same leg of the split phase, I would assume the UMC would just see 0V across them and not work.

 

[SSedan]

Maybe in relation to blowing the hair back and you came back with HVAC?

I missed that completely

 

[darth_vad3r]

If both hots are wired in from the same leg of the split phase, I would assume the UMC would just see 0V across them and not work.

Right. But I wonder if it's smart enough (or could be made smart enough) to look at one hot to neutral (that I've heard is "not used" for charging with the UMC/14-50) and realize there's at least 120V there... so let's use that and tell the user in the car something's messed up but at least trickle charge them. Seems posisble anyways, even if they don't do it.

Otherwise you would need an adapter to convert one hot, neutral, ground from the fake-14-50 to a 5-15.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I missed that completely

Now that you get it, and the joke was accidental to boot, I marked it as 'funny'

 

[Saghost]

If both hots are wired in from the same leg of the split phase, I would assume the UMC would just see 0V across them and not work.

Correct. The EVSE doesn't touch the Neutral wire at all - the two lines are passed by the plug to the EVSE box, so it won't see anything. Only two power wires and a ground are ever connected to the EVSE, so it has no chance to discover than there's a neutral. (All the 120V plugs pass Line and Neutral, all the 240Vs pass L1 and L2.)

You'd need some sort of custom adapter to make it work, maybe one that connects the neutral to one of the hots of the new receptacle. As long as it leaves the other line disconnected, it should be safe enough I think - plugged in to a correct outlet it'll still pass the same 120V.

 

[justsomeguy]

Right. But I wonder if it's smart enough (or could be made smart enough) to look at one hot to neutral (that I've heard is "not used" for charging with the UMC/14-50) and realize there's at least 120V there... so let's use that and tell the user in the car something's messed up but at least trickle charge them. Seems posisble anyways, even if they don't do it.

Otherwise you would need an adapter to convert one hot, neutral, ground from the fake-14-50 to a 5-15.

Theoretically I guess it could? Problem is that if you tell the UMC "hey, I'm plugged in to a 14-50" and it sees 0V across the two hot pins, it is much safer to just assume the outlet is faulty and refuse to work on it.

 

[Rocky_H]

So ... if you show up to one of these franken-RV-pedestals with a fake 14-50 ... and there's no 120V around, and you are at 1 mile of charge ... what kind of franken-adapter do you need to get a trickle charge from the 120V?

Does the Tesla UMC/14-50 figure out it's screwed and pull 120? or do you need to have a crazy 14-50 to 5-15 adapter to get 120V?

If both hots are wired in from the same leg of the split phase, I would assume the UMC would just see 0V across them and not work.

Right--that is what would actually happen. The UMC has exactly two pins that it looks at to use for a voltage difference to charge with. If the same phase is on both, it's 0V and nothing happens.

Now to get to a related thing that @darth_vad3r is kind of asking about, I have seen on one of the forums people asking about a kludged 14-50 kind of adapter to do that: like if one side of an outlet has a broken wire, couldn't it just use the 120V from the other side. A couple of specific problems with it. To see the 120V difference, you would need a hot to the neutral. But the Tesla plugs don't have the neutral pin hooked up. So you could make a 14-50 to 14-50 cross-wired kind of thing. But the other problem is you can't just have one kludged adapter. You would need one for "broken left hot wire" and a different one for "broken right hot wire". Technically the Tesla adapter could measure the 120V difference between one pin and ground, but you don't ever run current through ground on purpose, so you'd better not make that part of your 120V circuit.

So--no.

*Edit* I highly do not recommend this, but you're talking hypothetical dire emergency situation. You can't do it from the 14-50 adapter end. But if the breaker is accessible, you can turn that off, take apart the outlet and rewire it to make that usable by putting the actual hot and neutral wires across the Hot1 and Hot2 sides of the outlet. Then that gets to the two voltage pins of the Tesla adapter. But again--just don't. Things are never that desperate.

 

[mbp11]

off the subject, but I used an app called Chargepoint and it found two Tesla destination chargers at the Old Lewiston Inn in Lewinston, not too far away from Weaverville.

 

[TEG]

Charging at Campgrounds and RV Parks

Charging at campgrounds

What type of adapter do I need for this plug at a motorhome campground?

NEMA 14-50 - Sometimes 120 V

 

[Blucenturion]

off the subject, but I used an app called Chargepoint and it found two Tesla destination chargers at the Old Lewiston Inn in Lewinston, not too far away from Weaverville.

Yeah, thanks. This is loosely speaking, my home turf, so I know about them. Okay, I'll talk. She told me to call ahead, charging was $20. You read that right, $20. So last week, I did. Voicemail (Thurs) said Mondays closed, all other days open. There's no labor force up in these parts. Everyone's in the marijuana industry making $300/day. You can't get someone to serve dinner, and another someone to answer the hotel phone. Net result for us. Fageddaboutit.

 

[doghousePVD]

Right. But I wonder if it's smart enough (or could be made smart enough) to look at one hot to neutral (that I've heard is "not used" for charging with the UMC/14-50) and realize there's at least 120V there... so let's use that and tell the user in the car something's messed up but at least trickle charge them. Seems posisble anyways, even if they don't do it.

Otherwise you would need an adapter to convert one hot, neutral, ground from the fake-14-50 to a 5-15.

I think you would need a weirdo fake 14-50 to 5-20 adapter. I don't see how a UMC/14-50 would be "smart" enough to figure it out.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I mean, this exists:
https://www.amazon.com/Conntek-Y1450520S-Generator-Y-Adapter-Connectors/dp/B00BHGXYRC

14-50P -> 2x 5-20P ... and it’s not “smart” at all, so it should work with a UMC 5-15 or 5-20, right?

And it takes care of “left” vs “right” for you as well (I assume).

As far as “smarts”... So if the UMC did have the neutral from the 14-50 connected it could theoretically check for 120V existing on either leg and feed the car the info that it’s plugged into a 5-15 or 5-20. Now whether this is actually “smart” or dumb is a different matter

What do we think about using that Y-adapter though?

Edit: there’s also this: ‘gas range adapter’ but presumably it is left/right only and would only work half the time.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B013MRDD3S/

 

[Blucenturion]

Your post is confused. In the US, ALL 240 volt lines are two 120V line 180˚ out of phase. The hot to neutral will show 120V.

Having both hots in-phase on a 14-50 wouldn't make any sense - no 240V power at all, and only 50 A (not 100 A) of 120V available. With a standard neutral, you cannot run two in-phase 120V lines on it. (Fires, popped breakers, etc.)

It may be that the particular pedestal you were at is defective and had only one hot operating. Then you move to another pedestal. Another possibility there is a switch on the pedestal or office to select either the TT-30 circuit or the 14-50, but not both simultaneously.

BTW, how was the OP at a RV park with no manager on duty at 11:30pm? Just trying to filch some electrons without paying? And then complaining he couldn't steal as fast as he wanted? Am I missing something?

I'm unable to understand why you would allege something was nefarious, against a fellow forum member. Emergency situations call for innovative measures, I can't imagine anyone sitting on a highway all night, waiting for the office to open at 10 a.m. when they could stop in the next time and make things straight. When I explained my difficulties of last night, today, the manager was appreciative, and remembered another Tesla that had unsuccessfully charged, and the owner had done nothing about it. Accusations have a way of revealing the black heart of the accuser. I can't imagine your stock went up around here after others read your scurrilous accusation.

 

[justsomeguy]

I'm unable to understand why you would allege something was nefarious, against a fellow forum member. Emergency situations call for innovative measures, I can't imagine anyone sitting on a highway all night, waiting for the office to open at 10 a.m. when they could stop in the next time and make things straight. When I explained my difficulties of last night, today, the manager was appreciative, and remembered another Tesla that had unsuccessfully charged, and the owner had done nothing about it. Accusations have a way of revealing the black heart of the accuser. I can't imagine your stock went up around here after others read your scurrilous accusation.

You're going at this guy pretty hard, but aren't you basically admitting to what he's accusing you of here? You can argue good will and intent if you want, but plugging in to a power source without permission absolutely is stealing.

 

[darth_vad3r]

You're going at this guy pretty hard, but aren't you basically admitting to what he's accusing you of here? You can argue good will and intent if you want, but plugging in to a power source without permission absolutely is stealing.

He said in another post that he had communicated with them in advance, and knew of a $20 charge, and was told to call ahead which he did.

 

[justsomeguy]

He said in another post that he had communicated with them in advance, and knew of a $20 charge, and was told to call ahead which he did.

Judging from the post he quoted, I think he was talking about destination chargers at a nearby Hotel/Inn that another member mentioned.

 

[Aellinsar]

BTW, how was the OP at a RV park with no manager on duty at 11:30pm? Just trying to filch some electrons without paying? And then complaining he couldn't steal as fast as he wanted? Am I missing something?

You immediately jump to the assumption that the poster is stealing? Can we try to keep some basic civility on this forum?