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S-Class Drive Pilot 2.0 vs. Tesla Autopilot

tescroft

In Musk, we trust.
Aug 23, 2015
187
201
Switzerland
Hello

The new S-Class is available this fall and it comes with "Drive Pilot 2.0" or Intelligent drive as they call their system right now, available for about 4000 USD.

While the old Drive Pilot 1.0 was clearly worse than Autopilot, based on magazine tests, it seems Drive Pilot 2.0 offers now some features which Tesla does not in its Autopilot, neither V1 nor V2:

- turn assistance: automatically slowing down when the indicator is set to make a turn
- hands-free highway lane change without the need to touch the wheel by just hitting the indicator (with autopilot, you also have to touch the wheel after setting the indicator).
- rear facing radar capable of detecting incoming overtaking highway traffic from 80 meters (to be used for automatic lane changes)
- automatic speed adjustment to detected traffic signs or navigation data

It also has some flaws. Side acceleration is limited to 3 m/s, which means, it cannot take narrow corners by itself. Further, hands-free is limited to just 15 seconds. They claim this is both related to possible future EU regulations which require such BS. Also, the new Mercedes does not seem to offer hands-free jam driving like autopilot does.

Praktischer Physikunterricht - Mercedes S-Klasse im Test: Das selbstfahrende Auto ist schon sehr nahe - Golem.de (german)
(english)

In terms of sensors, it has a rear facing radar tesla has not, on the other hand, the mercs ultrasonics are shorter range and mercedes does not have rear side facing cameras and does not have two front side facing cameras as Autopilot V2. It has 4 cameras for a 360° view though, but it seems to me that these are not a stereo cameras and it is just use for parking visualization.

I still think Mercedes is not in par overall with their latest and best vehicle coming this year, but they clearly offer some implemented features now which I miss in autopilot V1 (and V2), like the automatic speed adjust.

What do you think?
 
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PatrickCH4313

Member
Mar 6, 2016
623
392
Argovie, CH
features now which I miss in autopilot V1 (and V2), like the automatic speed adjust.

It's not really true, with AP1, when TACC and autosteer are ON, you got the automatic speed adjust also, but only on secondary roads (not highways)
F.e. when driving at 80 km/h on a secondary road, once you enter a 60 km/h zone the system warms you with a message that the speed for this zone is limited to 60 km/h and reduces the speed to the maximum allowed speed automatically.
 
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DriverOne

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 20, 2012
871
521
Austin, TX
"the new Mercedes does not seem to offer hands-free jam driving like autopilot does."

AP shines with bumper-to-bumper traffic.
 

Spidy

Active Member
Feb 7, 2015
1,364
1,035
EU
the new Mercedes does not seem to offer hands-free jam driving like autopilot does.
Neither does Autopilot (4) :rolleyes:

umfrage-tesla-autopilot-deutschland.jpg
 

tescroft

In Musk, we trust.
Aug 23, 2015
187
201
Switzerland
Hands-free has nothing to do with autonomous. Hands-on has nothing to do with "awareness" of the driver. There is NO, I repeat, NO regulatory requirement for level 2 cars to monitor hands on the steering wheel. They have just to make sure, that the driver is able to control the car at any time. There are a lot of ways to do this.
 
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ecarfan

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2013
19,350
14,019
West Vancouver, British Columbia
Your comparison comments are not completely accurate.
hands-free highway lane change without the need to touch the wheel by just hitting the indicator (with autopilot, you also have to touch the wheel after setting the indicator).
With Tesla AP to make an Auto Lane Change you only have to -- after of course visually checking to make sure it is safe -- hit the turn signal stalk and the car will change lanes, you do NOT have to touch the steering wheel.
turn assistance: automatically slowing down when the indicator is set to make a turn
Sometimes AP will slow on turns, I have had it do so multiple times on freeway transition ramps, however many times it will not. So it needs improvement there, to be sure.
rear facing radar capable of detecting incoming overtaking highway traffic from 80 meters (to be used for automatic lane changes)
That is cool and I do wonder long term how AP2 is going to handle that. It appears that Tesla believes that can be handled entirely with the additional pair of cameras in AP2 that cover the rear quarters. I hope so.
 

tescroft

In Musk, we trust.
Aug 23, 2015
187
201
Switzerland
Sometimes AP will slow on turns, I have had it do so multiple times on freeway transition ramps, however many times it will not. So it needs improvement there, to be sure.

Yes, but I think it does that based on fleet learning data, at sections where other Tesla drivers often slow down manually. This is not directly related to speed limits.
 

Barklikeadog

Active Member
Jul 13, 2016
1,881
1,366
PA
If the Tesla autos do not have rear radar for automatic lane changes, can they actually make the sales claim that they are fully self driving capable?
 

lux_cars

Member
Jul 31, 2017
170
126
Boston, MA
Tesla believes that cameras are enough.

Humans don't have radar, yet they can change lanes.

I doubt regulators/public will approve self-driving unless it's orders of magnitude better than humans. Foregoing rear radar could be a big mistake and you likely can't do L5 FSD without it IMO. Not to mention AP1 cars changing lanes just by using ultrasonic sensors!

Copying my post on rear radar from another thread:

"On a related note, I think AP1 hardware is wholly inadequate for making lane changes on its own due to its sole reliance on ultrasonic (ultraslow?) sensors. I've hit hidden objects a few times during parking because I was in a rush and tried to park fast and ultrasonics didn't pick it up quickly enough to alert me in time. The lack of rear corner radars is also another glaring omission. There are many instances when a vehicle is trying to change lanes while another vehicle is moving at high speed towards that free space in the adjacent lane from behind such that the two could collide. That's why I think most (all?) automakers rely on rear/rear corner radar for blind spot assist systems.

What's even more concerning is that no rear radar was added in AP2 hardware. The cameras might not be sufficient on their own in all situations. For instance, every now and then you find a driver who forgets to switch on his/her headlights (why govt. allow non-auto headlights is beyond me). On the highway at night a camera alone wouldn't pick up such a vehicle in the blind spot but radar would. This isn't the only situation where cameras alone wouldn't suffice for lane change. What about driving in snowy, slushy, salted roads? There isn't even a washer/wiper on the cameras. My car has junction cameras at the same height as the two side cameras in the turn signal light in AP2 and they're pretty useless for a good chunk of winter.

It's little things like these that concern me that AP2 will be far from sufficient in its FSD capabilities at a level that will be acceptable to regulators or a public large segments of which are skeptical of autonomous vehicles."
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
16,224
36,576
Oregon
With Tesla AP to make an Auto Lane Change you only have to -- after of course visually checking to make sure it is safe -- hit the turn signal stalk and the car will change lanes, you do NOT have to touch the steering wheel.

I think that is true in the US, but I thought I read that in the EU you did have to touch the steering wheel after using the turn signal stalk.
 

ZeApelido

Active Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,268
28,305
The Peninsula, CA
Tesla believes that cameras are enough.

Humans don't have radar, yet they can change lanes.

Humans have extremely high resolution "cameras" and insane "processors" to do image segmentation in real time.

Actual cameras on Tesla may have high enough resolution, IF the GPUs were powerful enough to do that much processing on the raw data in real time. I'm not sure that is or isn't the case. Often in computer vision, you will see significant downsampling of the raw camera data in order to make the computation levels reasonable. And reduce the neural net size. Obviously that reduces resolution of what can be "seen".
 

Todd Burch

Voltage makes me tingle.
Nov 3, 2009
8,151
32,574
Smithfield, VA
Humans have extremely high resolution "cameras" and insane "processors" to do image segmentation in real time.

Actual cameras on Tesla may have high enough resolution, IF the GPUs were powerful enough to do that much processing on the raw data in real time. I'm not sure that is or isn't the case. Often in computer vision, you will see significant downsampling of the raw camera data in order to make the computation levels reasonable. And reduce the neural net size. Obviously that reduces resolution of what can be "seen".

Figuring out if a car is coming in an adjacent lane is pretty trivial compared to the other problems that they need to solve.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,402
EU
One thing rear radars can do is see through following cars in bends. They can also see through rain and snow...

The omission of rear radars in AP2 is IMO one of the more jarring ones. Front could do with a second radar as well.
 
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jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,693
1,959
Teller County CO
One thing rear radars can do is see through following cars in bends. They can also see through rain and snow...

The omission of rear radars in AP2 is IMO one of the more jarring ones. Front could do with a second radar as well.

Granted I'm no expert in autonomous cars but I've always felt like the sensor suite should be very robust and I feel like with AP2, Tesla is relying wayyyy to much on visual interpretation which is prone a number of failures especially when it comes to environmental inconsistencies such as precipitation, fog, heavy rain, etc..

Jeff
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,402
EU
Granted I'm no expert in autonomous cars but I've always felt like the sensor suite should be very robust and I feel like with AP2, Tesla is relying wayyyy to much on visual interpretation which is prone a number of failures especially when it comes to environmental inconsistencies such as precipitation, fog, heavy rain, etc..

Jeff

Given that much of the competition is looking at quadruple redundancy with 360 radar, 360 vision, 360 lidar and 360 ultrasonics with sensor fusion, Tesla's approach is very lightweight.

If Tesla had made no FSD comments, it would be a great driver's aid suite, but as an FSD suite it certainly is a lightweight one... Interesting to see if Tesla sticks to their vision-mostly plan...

On reason of course is this small a vision-only suite is easier to code for and can be done using less processing power...
 
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