Model S range and interior update imminent?

[AnxietyRanger]

@Spidy the plastic door sill has definitely changed over the years. I rented a 2015 for a month over the winter, and it is a much harder, cheaper feeling plastic than my 2017. I've owned an E55 Benz up 'til last year - and it's true that the high end Benzes use high end materials. But the Model S interior, honestly is pretty dang good with the exception of some stick-out sore spots such as the fake-chrome silver bezels. The new premium ventilated seats in my car look very, very upmarket. Personally, I think people confuse minimalism with poor quality. There are some parts Tesla should upgrade but overall the materials used on Tesla's 2016/2017 cars are noticeably upmarket from the early cars. The alcantara headliner is great, the alcantar dash is quality. The matte obeche wood combined with the light gray next gen seats and alcantara dash still makes people's jaws drop - it looks super tight. The X takes it up a notch further with a more "rich" or "quality" feel to the door sill - hard to describe but I think it's in the right quality level for the price - the S you can argue about.

I guess it is kind of telling, though, that out of the stuff you mention Tesla has already discontinued the ventilation part of the seats as well as the Alcantara on the dash. And on the SUV side, the Model X 5/7 seater's new seats don't exactly look upmarket compared to the old monoposts that actually kind of look(ed) upmarket...

The minimalism is perfectly fine, the design philosophy is not the issue IMO. But there are lackings on functionality and material quality that I would welcome fixes for - and the direction has not consistently been going up or improving, but going down in places...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

On the Model S I get plastic on the doors no matter what I select... If I understood it correctly in Kman's youtube video even the Model 3 now seems to have better materials here.

Model 3 without PuP probably has plastic on the doors too.

On my Model X (Q1/2017) that area is covered in leather. Are they not on the current Model S with PuP?

 

[DocZ]

I agree one of the reasons we got so few details of Model 3 is the fact that Tesla is being intentionally vague to protect Model S/X sales that they need for the time being - while showing just enough Model 3 progress they need for the mission and the stock market.

Obviously Model 3 is better than Model S/X in some regards, some technologies and details as well as sports a more modern interior (though of course has also the known weaknesses), but Tesla does not want to shine a light on that.

As for the interior refresh, there is the rumor that Model S/X might be getting a Model 3 like interior refresh with an augmented reality HUD (third or a quarter of entire windshield) replacing the instrument cluster there.

Where is that rumor coming from? First time I'm hearing about it, would love to hear more

 

[calisnow]

I guess it is kind of telling, though, that out of the stuff you mention Tesla has already discontinued the ventilation part of the seats as well as the Alcantara on the dash. And on the SUV side, the Model X 5/7 seater's new seats don't exactly look upmarket compared to the old monoposts that actually kind of look(ed) upmarket...

The minimalism is perfectly fine, the design philosophy is not the issue IMO. But there are lackings on functionality and material quality that I would welcome fixes for - and the direction has not consistently been going up or improving, but going down in places...

Agreed - minimalism demands high quality materials and workmanship to look good - whether it's buildings, furniture, clothing - or auto interiors. Not sure what's up with Tesla pulling luxury options out of the S on this either but I have to believe it's because a refresh is on the way - Tesla isn't so stupid that they are deaf to everyone saying "S interior needs some improvement!"

 

[calisnow]

Model 3 without PuP probably has plastic on the doors too.

On my Model X (Q1/2017) that area is covered in leather. Are they not on the current Model S with PuP?

Which are are you talking about?

 

[calisnow]

Where is that rumor coming from? First time I'm hearing about it, would love to hear more

It's less rumor and more deductive logic about where the S needs to go now that a loaded 3 is within $10K of a stripped S (which itself is pretty loaded given how much equipment Tesla is throwing in for the base $69.5K price right now). Also, among other prominent hires Tesla snagged Volvo's former head of interior design this year, someone from Microsoft's hololens project - as well as the guy who designed a fancy HUD motorcycle helmet. Nothing has been heard from any of the three since - either they are rotting away in a Tesla dungeon or they're working on something...

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Model S interior refresh is almost mandatory at this point. Comparable range and features in a Model S will run you over $110k in a 100D - double the price of a comparable Model 3. That's an absolutely astounding price difference. Tesla will have to do something significant to justify the higher price of Model S.

 

[DocZ]

Model S interior refresh is almost mandatory at this point. Comparable range and features in a Model S will run you over $110k in a 100D - double the price of a comparable Model 3. That's an absolutely astounding price difference. Tesla will have to do something significant to justify the higher price of Model S.

I absolutely agree with this. It seems that the majority of Tesla fans don't think this is the case though and completely justify the $100k 100D already, which is ridiculous imo

 

[calisnow]

I absolutely agree with this. It seems that the majority of Tesla fans don't think this is the case though and completely justify the $100k 100D already, which is ridiculous imo

I justified it - until the Model 3 came out. There was no alternative - a 100D was in a class of its own. Now that there is an alternative which gives maybe 80% of the experience for 50% of the price (and given batteries continuing to decrease in cost) - yep I'd expect more for the money.

 

[DocZ]

I justified it - until the Model 3 came out. There was no alternative - a 100D was in a class of its own. Now that there is an alternative which gives maybe 80% of the experience for 50% of the price (and given batteries continuing to decrease in cost) - yep I'd expect more for the money.

Well said. 80% of the experience for 50% of the price is literally it. Also, recent delivery numbers suggest that the S/X demand really is plateauing so I'm surprised that some kind of update hasn't happened yet. The drive unit updates just werent enough.

 

[eyespii]

There should be no reason why someone who wants an MS would consider the M3, but here we are. The S100D is not worth almost double a fully loaded 3. The S needs an update, otherwise the 3 will eat its lunch.

I think Elon and team know this, and that’s why an S refresh is imminent. I have a day-one reservation on the 3 and I’m in the first oct/dec delivery group, which means that I’d probably get to configure in September. If Tesla wants me to buy an S over a 3, they need to update before I have even have a chance to buy the 3. So my guess is that the S will be refreshed in mid/late august.

 

[DocZ]

There should be no reason why someone who wants an MS would consider the M3, but here we are. The S100D is not worth almost double a fully loaded 3. The S needs an update, otherwise the 3 will eat its lunch.

I think Elon and team know this, and that’s why an S refresh is imminent. I have a day-one reservation on the 3 and I’m in the first oct/dec delivery group, which means that I’d probably get to configure in September. If Tesla wants me to buy an S over a 3, they need to update before I have even have a chance to buy the 3. So my guess is that the S will be refreshed in mid/late august.

Good theory. I think there may be something in the September semi reveal for the Model S as well

 

[mknox]

I currently drive a Cadillac ELR. Despite all the shortcomings of the ELR drivetrain and pricing of the car, they hit the ball out of the park when it came to the interior. It's fit and finish, ambiance, sound system, and comfort have surpassed any BMW or Mercedes I've ever been in.

I would tend to agree. Prior to my Model S, I was driving a Cadillac CTS and still to this day feel that all of the above was much superior to what I currently have. Now I agree this is all very subjective, so I'll just leave it at that except to say that I'll cast my vote for imminent interior and battery pack upgrades. An interior refresh is a lot easier than a whole new body design which I believe is years away due to the constraints Tesla currently has. A larger capacity pack is "easily" do-able too, and these two things are probably going to be necessary to maintain the differentiation between the 3 and the S.

 

[David99]

One thing that people forgot is that the extremely good sales on the Model S and X were due to the fact that those were the only good EVs with real world range. The Model S/X is always compared to the BMW 7 or Mercedes S class but the truth is, the majority of Model S/X owners were never in the market for a BMW 7 or Benz S (or similar class car), they wanted a good EV and those were the only options. Now that there is a reasonable priced EV with the same range and fast charging options, the Model S/X sales will drop significantly unless Tesla transforms them into a real upper class car that truly matches it's competition.

Honestly the Model 3 makes the Model S look just overpriced without justification. As others have pointed out, you can get TWO max range Model 3 for the price of a 100D Model S.

 

[Matias]

What about the "production hell" with Model 3? Does Tesla also want to redo S at the same time?

 

[David99]

What about the "production hell" with Model 3? Does Tesla also want to redo S at the same time?

They have to. With the Model 3 coming into market they have to push the Model S to the next level.

 

[Mo City]

Doubtful it's imminent, but there is obviously an interior refresh of the Model S in the works. Tesla will get feedback on the Model 3 interior and incorporate the best aspects.

The notion of removing the dashboard and replacing it with an HUD is intriguing. But if the screen on the Model 3 goes over well enough, it may negate the need of having an HUD.

 

[Destiny1701]

One thing that people forgot is that the extremely good sales on the Model S and X were due to the fact that those were the only good EVs with real world range. The Model S/X is always compared to the BMW 7 or Mercedes S class but the truth is, the majority of Model S/X owners were never in the market for a BMW 7 or Benz S (or similar class car), they wanted a good EV and those were the only options. Now that there is a reasonable priced EV with the same range and fast charging options, the Model S/X sales will drop significantly unless Tesla transforms them into a real upper class car that truly matches it's competition.

Honestly the Model 3 makes the Model S look just overpriced without justification. As others have pointed out, you can get TWO max range Model 3 for the price of a 100D Model S.

As mentioned in a previous post, one has to compare an AWD M3 to a 100D. Not the RWD.
(One can always buy 2 BMW 325i's for the price of a decently loaded up 535i sport.) different class, different style.

But I agree, unless the interior is refreshed and provided more luxury, S has to either reduce in price or offer quite a bit more. 360+ miles range may also help.

 

[Sunshine State]

No, you are right, the Designo interior is better. But its also (here) a $20k option. The standard E class interior is inferior to the Model S.

The standard new E class interior is not much different than the Designo other than color, genuine leather, and cross stitching but the standard has the same great build quality. The Tesla is electric and that is its advantage. Very few will waste their time to argue the S has a competitive interior.

 

[David99]

As mentioned in a previous post, one has to compare an AWD M3 to a 100D. Not the RWD.
(One can always buy 2 BMW 325i's for the price of a decently loaded up 535i sport.) different class, different style.

But I agree, unless the interior is refreshed and provided more luxury, S has to either reduce in price or offer quite a bit more. 360+ miles range may also help.

comparing the M 3 and the S is sure apples and oranges, but only from a car-class PoV. To a person that is the market to buy an EV both are considered equally. Most people do not care about AWD. That's way down the list of why someone would buy one car over the other. People want a really good EV. The vast majority of people do not care about the slightly higher performance of the Model S.

That's the reason why upper class cars sell in such small numbers compared to normal ones. The number of people that can afford such a car is very limited and it's hard to come up with features that justify double the price. The Model S was an exception that attracted people that would otherwise not buy such an expensive car. Now this unique situation is gone and Tesla has to make the Model S worth it's price. Being the only awesome EV used to be enough.