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S85 Classic vs. P85 Autopilot Comparison

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Cyclone, Jun 1, 2015.

  1. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Recently, I got a CPO S85 that I am absolutely loving. At pickup, there were a few due bill items to address. My car has been dropped off today at the Service Center to take care of these this week, and I've been provided a loan P85 w/ Autopilot. I thought I would share some notes on the differences I am experiencing between these two cars in the hopes it can be useful to others.

    Some background...
    My Car: S85, no parking sensors, no Autopilot, air suspension, standard 19" w/ Goodyears, standard headliner, premium lighting, tech package w/ power liftgate, firmware 2.4-.188

    Loaner Car: P85, parking sensors, Autopilot, coil suspension, 21" w/ Continental, black headliner, no premium lighting, tech package w/ power liftgate, firmware 2.4-.160

    Some hardware differences (references the P85 unless specifically noted to be my S85)...
    - The P85 w/ Autopilot is already a unicorn, but there are a couple surprises. The chargeport is not auto-closeable. Guess this came a few weeks later from the build of the loaner
    - No fog lights (or at least, no option to turn on/off in controls)
    - Performance tan seats do indeed have alcantara inserts and this vehicle has dark gray piping

    Driving impression (again, P85 unless specifically noted)...
    - Takeoff is a good bit quicker
    - With my driving style, highway driving is roughly the same. NOTE: This does not mean the P85 isn't quicker, but the way I drive I do not use the performance here
    - With my driving style (and quite likely the roads I normally drive on), no appreciable difference in road feel between 19" Goodyears with air (my car) and 21" Continental with coil (loaner). Again, this doesn't mean there is not a difference, but my driving style is not in tune to notice the difference
    - I particularly like the blind spot monitoring UI. It's unobtrusive and I can notice it in my peripheral vision while I pay attention to the road. That said, it hasn't exactly been tremendously accurate
    - TACC is very nice, but the car has a different driving personality than I do. I would imagine I would absolutely love this in rush hour on the interstate, but I rarely drive in such traffic. As such, while it is nice to have, I am happy with the money I saved buying a CPO and foregoing it than buying a new car

    Other things I noticed...
    - The screen with the speedo is MUCH laggier with the regen/power display than my car. I am half-tempted to try rebooting the screen and seeing if that helps.
    - I MUCH prefer my metallic dolphin gray to the glossy black. If I had to choose between glossy black and obsidian metallic black, I would pick the metallic in a heartbeat, sight unseen.
    - I dislike the tan seats, as I suspected since I am generally not a fan of tan seats
    - I would have ordered black headliner and gray seats, but white (standard or alcantara) headliner and black seats was my fallback if I did not build to order. After just an hour of driving around, I would now pick a white headliner even if ordering new.
    - Not have the two side-lights in the trunk seriously darkens the trunk. Not that my trunk is well lit, but its usable. I would not be able to get by without the extra lighting of the premium lighting in the trunk. Now I am not surprised others are finding the cord bundle and adding those in or running their own LED strips to augment the built-in lighting.
    - The ambient lighting is a nice touch in my car. I actually miss it while driving the loaner
    - The yacht floor causes the "bowling alley" to lose a few inches in depth! My Diono Travel Pal sits very differently with the yacht flooring installed in the loaner than my carpeted car. I actually plan to post in the "must have accessories" thread to remove the Travel Pal from my recommendations for new cars.
    - The parking sensors yell "stop" when the bush next to the parking space is close to my side, even though I am pulling in parallel to the bush.
    - I really wish there was a way to push/pull a profile from one car to the other. My driver seat settings, mirrors, steering wheel, radio favorites, Slacker selections, etc. are missed. I went ahead and paired my phone with the loaner and am streaming Pandora instead
    - I miss being able to use the app to turn on the car's a/c before I leave the office
    - I had to find my garage door opener since the opener is at the maximum number of remotes programmed


    Feel free to ask questions or post other thoughts and I will try to do my best in comparing the two cars.
     
  2. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    #2 Drucifer, Jun 1, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2015
    I see you got the same loaner I did right after I had it. I tried to keep it nice for you ;)

    I wasn't a fan of the 21" rims with coils. I like 19" with either coils or air or 21" with air. 21" with coils felt too harsh and busy.
    I thought I was really going to like the black alcantara, but after having it for a couple of days, decided I prefer the tan.

    I also decided that I don't miss TACC or autopilot, which was surprising, because I thought that was the biggest sacrifice in going CPO.
    I was also surprised that the parking sensors weren't a super big deal...due to the quality and definition of the back-up camera along with the guidelines from ver. 6 software.
     
  3. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    LOL. I don't know if it was yours or another person's garage door that was programmed into the Homelink. I went ahead and deleted it for whomever's it was.
     
  4. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    Not mine. I didn't notice it either.
     
  5. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Thanks for sharing.
    Can you elaborate on "different driving personality"?
     
  6. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Sure. For instance, I started out with a following distance of 5 and eventually dialed it into 3. So ignoring that, I apparently am more elastic with my following distance than TACC is. For instance, while definitely it didn't feel abrupt, the car wanted to slow down using the friction brake more often than I do in my car. I tent to let regen do most of my slowing and then hit the friction brake if I need to for faster maneuvers. While I do not let myself get up to the tail of the car in front of me, I definitely get closer when slowing down than a TACC of 3. I didn't take the setting lower though as following distance was right at my comfort level with 3 on the interstate. Additionally, I gave it some go three times when a car slowed to my left, changed lanes in front of me, and then continued to the exit lane on my right. TACC didn't want to speed up for a longer time than I normally wait.

    Nothing major, but just behavioral differences so far. I had an all Interstate commute by the time I remembered I had TACC in this car, so I missed out on city roads with 55 mph speed limits.

    Also, I must have done a good job getting used to the turn signal in my car over the past two weeks. I engaged TACC multiple times when I meant to indicate a right turn or lane change!
     
  7. Rockster

    Rockster Active Member

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    This.
     
  8. No2DinosaurFuel

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    What about the road noise and ride comfort between your S85 on 19 inch with air vs the P85 with 21 and coil? It seems like the perfect opposite to feel the difference? If you cannot feel the difference, then it seems like my future choice of getting the coil is getting better.
     
  9. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    So far, there has been no discernible difference. That said, the local service center is on a main drag that is slowing converting to an Interstate and my work is just off the Interstate. They anticipate having my car all week, so I will have the opportunity to drive the loaner around town some more and report back.

    That said, given my driving history was really just econoboxes to get from point A -> point B, it is likely my vehicle sophistication is not up to snuff to feel a difference. Prior to the Tesla, my "upscale" drive was driving my mother's Lexus IS 250 instead of my Toyota 4Runner, which itself was a great improvement over the other half's Honda Fit. That said, we had a brief stint with a very unreliable VW Eos. Loved the drive, but the reliability and expensive servicing costs just made me get rid of it after only 18 months (while I could still advertise it to a private buyer as a vehicle with VW's own warranty). The Tesla and my mother's Lexus are miles ahead of the VW.
     
  10. MsElectric

    MsElectric Active Member

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    I think a big thing here is that they have implemented only about half of what Auto Pilot will eventually be. When they get Autopilot steering, braking, and acceleration working it is going to make long distance driving a lot easier. Also the auto parking when that gets implemented will be huge for those who have tight parking garages. I'd be curious to see your comparison later this summer or the fall when Auto Pilot is more fully implemented...
     
  11. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    You mean realistically in 2016, right?
     
  12. Stoneymonster

    Stoneymonster Active Member

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    Oh god, I'll have to avoid this forum for a while if that's true. The screaming will be epic.
     
  13. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I have the same evaluation of the original CC as you have of TACC. I would love to see Tesla look into both CC and TACC being "too precise/tight".

    In case it's of interest: Efficiency Miser Mode.
     
  14. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I 100% agree on TACC attempting to hold the prescribed following distance too tightly, resulting in more braking in general driving and stronger acceleration in bumper to bumper traffic than I would use when driving manually.
     
  15. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    Tonight I had two occurrences of the collision warning. The first was on the 55 MPH road through town. As we went around a curve, it lost the radar lock and surged forward to then relock, beep, and slam the brakes. In the second case, I was testing city roads and one car shifted lanes left and the loaner surged forward. I saw the Cruise icon go gray, so I hit the brake just as the beeping started. I don't fault TACC in either case though since they are not exactly the advertised use case scenario. I did like that when TACC looses its lock while the turn signal is engaged, it does NOT accelerate the car. That was a very good touch!

    - As for the drive, this car is much noisier than mine, but I can't say this would be coil vs. air b/c the cars have very different tires.
    - The headrests on the 1.5 seats in the loaner are MUCH more comfortable than my 1.0 headrests. I find my headrests are too far away from my sitting position and I sometimes strain my neck to keep it further ahead than the headrest (on long drives). In the loaner, I still lean my head forward often, but the headrest is sufficiently close that I can relax my neck and just lean back.
    - This loaner has the rear jump seats. It was interesting folding them away and putting them back in the dark tonight!
    - And my are the brakes grippy on the loaner. When driving on city streets, the slightest pressure on the brake pedal instantly stops the car and gives some whiplash-like action. Takes some getting used to, but they feel much more effective than my car. That said, this car has 2k miles and mine has 31k, so it could be mine are just worn.
    - The acceleration in the P85 feels much instantaneous than my S85.
     
  16. acevolt

    acevolt Member

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    I am curious about the preference for the white headliner over the black. I just ordered my car this weekend and have until Friday to change anything at no cost. I selected the premium interior and the black headliner with grey second gen seats. I thought that would look a lot better than grey with white alcantara which is now the only other option.
     
  17. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    EVERY TIME I take my car in to have tires rotated, I get a smudge on my white alcantara. Luckily I know how to clean it off easily, or I would have black marks all around the driver's door and visor (what are they doing messing with the visor??!!). But I have thought that if I ever buy another Tesla, I will consider the black, though since the cleaning is easy peasy, I might still decide to go light.

    The white blends more into the window scene, not making a visual jump from bright to dark so much, so I like it for that.
     
  18. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    I found the black looked great in the "design studio", but in practice it just felt weird and looked a bit off. It's hard for me to put my finger on as I preferred black alcantara in theory.
     
  19. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    I was going to order black headliner with gray seats. I actually walked away from an inventory car b/c it had Gray Seats + Standard (non-alcantara) headliner, which is essentially a Cream that is lighter and less "yellow" than the tan seats. But note, the bar in between the pano roof panels was not covered and black as well. Currently, I am liking my black seats with cream headliner, but would have picked black with cream headliner if that was an option. I've heard the white headliner is rather "cool" vs. "warm" like the standard headliner that isn't available anymore, so while it won't match, it won't be bad. Additionally, new cars include an alcantara wrap of the bar between the pano panels, so you whole roof will match.

    For me, while test driving the black headliner, the car didn't feel dark. However, after putting 1,200 miles in two weeks in my car, I instantly noticed how much darker the loaner is with the black headliner. I do not think, long-term, it will be an issue. It is just noticeable to me since I jumped between cars.

    In the end, I really wish they had a layout like my 4Runner. Black upper dash, gray leather seats, matching gray lower dash (so far Tesla does this), but also a matching gray headliner. Gray + Standard headliner (if buying inventory or used) would probably clash with the warm headliner and cool seats, but gray + white alcantara will probably be good. That said, I have NOT seen the white alcantara in person and as I said above, once you are not moving between them, it won't feel dark.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now I know you have tan seats, but perhaps you can capture a pic of the headliner and pano in your car please? I didn't look inside it when I saw it since you weren't there (felt like a violation if I were to look inside w/o you present).
     
  20. Cyclone

    Cyclone Active Member

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    #20 Cyclone, Jun 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
    Well, my time with the loaner will be cut short. One of the things that need to work on isn't available on-hand, so they finished up everything else and will be returning my car with an appointment to finish up in two weeks. Not a problem at all. I understand things happen and I very much appreciate that they called me to tell me the issue and went ahead and finished up everything they could do right now rather than just leaving everything for later. I've seen that happen before with other makes and it is very annoying!

    It will be good to get back in my own car. My overall impressions are...
    - P85 is quite the performance improvement over the S85, but its value is lost on me
    - The parking sensors are quite nice, but not a "must-have"
    - TACC is very nice on relatively traffic-free Interstates and I enjoy it, but relatively traffic-free are the most relaxing parts of my drive
    - TACC is not quite polished enough for US Hwys vs. Interstates, but still a good ride
    - TACC is not advertised as such and is not suited for city driving
    - When Autopilot 2.0 comes along and includes the advertised Autopilot 1.0 functionality + urban driving (or at least high-speed city streets like 45-55 mph), I will be happy to look into upgrading my Tesla
    - 21" wheels have no appeal to me, so I would stick with 19s
    - Either 21" Continentals or Coil Suspension (I suspect the former) is a harsher ride and bouncy after going over speed bumps/humps. My 19" Goodyears with Air are softer while still giving me acceptable levels of road feel
    - I do NOT like solid black paint. I actively disliked seeing it in my garage and every time I walked up to the car
    - I do NOT like tan interior. I could live with it if I had to, but I get no "enjoyment" from the tan
    - I no longer prefer the black headliner. The well-lit Model S I normally drive is more at home to me
    - I love the ambient lighting touches, but can live without them if they again become an expensive option
    - I have zero ride height/curb issues with coils
    - The 2015 turn/cruise stalks are much more natural to me than the 2013 turn/cruise stalk
    - I'm ambivalent that TACC will move to the nearest 5 mph speed when given a full push up or down, while CC will move +/- 5 mph
    - I like the bowling alley and even losing the 2 inches to the yacht flooring is a negative to me
    - The newer cars are definitely quieter than the older ones. One of the reasons my S85 is in for service is because the rear is giving a high-pitched whine at low power/speed and I (and my passengers) are complaining because I can hear it over the music. The loaner was silent in that aspect and road noise (other than tire noise) was quieter than my car. For this, I mean I could hear sounds from the street and other cars less in the loaner than I can in my car.
     

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