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S85 For Sale White/Tan/Gloss Wood/No Pano 3500 miles ACCIDENT DAMAGE

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#41
An interested party asked me to video the right rear quarter panel damage. Please find the following link-
Tesla model S right rear quarter panel - YouTube

I have yet to hear from State Farm today and do not anticipate hearing from them. I am composing a request for bids to be posted tomorrow morning. As it stands now, I will be asking for email bids over a four day period of time then comparing the bids and trying to choose one in a single sitting at the end of those four days. This makes the bidding process a one time best offer bid which seems to be the most fair way to do this.

One alternative that has been suggested is to update a post with the current high bid number and no other details (about the bidder). This approach seems very "Ebayish" and thus I am avoiding it. Thoughts?
 
#43
lolachampcar said:
An interested party asked me to video the right rear quarter panel damage. Please find the following link-
Tesla model S right rear quarter panel - YouTube

I have yet to hear from State Farm today and do not anticipate hearing from them. I am composing a request for bids to be posted tomorrow morning. As it stands now, I will be asking for email bids over a four day period of time then comparing the bids and trying to choose one in a single sitting at the end of those four days. This makes the bidding process a one time best offer bid which seems to be the most fair way to do this.

One alternative that has been suggested is to update a post with the current high bid number and no other details (about the bidder). This approach seems very "Ebayish" and thus I am avoiding it. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the video. I think you are right on with your method of e-mail bidding. It's much simpler and it gives you the opportunity to pick the offer that suits you the best.
 
#44
lolachampcar said:
As it stands now, I will be asking for email bids over a four day period of time then comparing the bids and trying to choose one in a single sitting at the end of those four days. This makes the bidding process a one time best offer bid which seems to be the most fair way to do this.

One alternative that has been suggested is to update a post with the current high bid number and no other details (about the bidder). This approach seems very "Ebayish" and thus I am avoiding it. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
As an interested party, I personally don't have a preference on how you do it - it's your car - sell it any way you deem suitable.

From your perspective, I do think you'll get more money from holding an "eBay" style auction as people would be more likely to up their bid if they are losing. I do like the fact that bids would be visible. Heck, auctioning it on eBay itself may get you the best price.

From a potential buyer's perspective, I suspect that the single best offer bid may net a better price - especially since it's likely to restrict potential buyers. Someone's earlier suggestion to go through potential buyers in order that they PMd you seems best for the buyer, but I suspect you would end up with less money.

Or I could be wrong.
 
#45
Like drees, it's your car, sell it how you want.

The only thing I'd note is that you'd previously mentioned some preferences, such as when to transfer the car - you would rather not do that immediately. So in your bid process you may want to take flexibility on transfer dates, rather than simply price. You might also want to consider simplicity of the sale - a local buyer with a cashier's check from a local bank is better than a remote buyer that needs to get a loan, wants to write a personal check after getting the car, etc. But then again, maybe all that just makes it more complicated...
 
#46
I agree with ChadS. I'm not in the running here, but either of your two options seems fine, though I suspect you'll get a better price conducting a public highest-bid auction.

One thing you might want to consider is reserving the right to select a bid other than the highest. As Chad mentioned, you have some other things you're looking for in addition to price, so it only makes sense to allow yourself the ability to factor in how much those are worth to you.
 
#47
I would like to start by thanking everyone that took time to give me feedback on selling my wife’s S85. That information, combined with some valuable cost data on a similar repair, has provided a clear and compelling case for selling the car as is.

The car is now available for sale and delivery. I would like to solicit bids by email for the next four days at the close of which I will sit down with my wife and examine all of them in an attempt to pick the best buyer. This will be Tuesday afternoon. I prefer email over PM as I seem unable to manage the volume in my PM account. As mentioned earlier, it is my intention to to be fair throughout this process and disadvantage no one. I will make the car available for inspection throughout this process.

Information from seller:
The car has clear title without lien holder, is in our possession and is in my wife’s name.
The car can be delivered to the buyer as early as two days after the close of bidding and selection of a winning bid.
A successful bid should include a non-refundable deposit that (1) allows the buyer to rely on the purchase of the car and (2) allow the seller to rely on the sale so that the car can be removed from the market. It has been my past experience that these types of deposit are typically made within a few days of the successful bid and are routinely in the 10% range.
I would prefer all payments be made via wire transfer to Tesla referencing the order number for my wife’s replacement car.
Although not a mandatory requirement, it would be very helpful if the successful bidder would allow for my wife to remain in the car until the replacement arrives. If the buyer is kind enough to allow this, I would anticipate protections for the buyer such that the car remains in my wife’s name, on our insurance policy and there is a clear zero cost exit for the buyer should anything happen to the car during this time (like another accident ). Again, this is desirable for obvious reasons but is by no means a requirement of a successful bid.

My primary goals are to meet the buyer’s needs for value while fetching the best possible price for the car as is. I am open to any approach that helps to achieve both goals.

Thank You,
Bill Hart

bill
at
lolachampcar
with the obligatory dot com
 
#50
jai,

The math is clear. The car is worth more as is than it is "Tesla Certified Repaired" with the associated costs of those repairs. I compared selling as is to having it repaired then trading it in on the new car. This path costs less for whoever pays the bill (State Farm or Me).
 
#52
I detailed the two paths for SF and gave them time to respond before I put the car up for sale. They did not respond so the car is for sale. I would not have put the car up for bid if I were not willing/able to deliver the car within the minimum of two days from the close of bidding.

The process is real and the car will sell if I get a good enough bid.
 
#53
I'm not participating. Just had one comment: For documentation purposes to establish value, using eBay may be better. It removes several "claims" SF could make that the process was deficient in some way.

My .02. Good luck.

A
 
#54
You are correct but I would prefer to sell the car to people I know from the TMC community. The sleaze factor on EBay can be high, especially when selling cars. Often you will have winning bids that do not perform. Couple this with the fact that members here are the most knowledgeable about the car and I think it is reasonable to believe that TMC will provide an equal or better yield from the sale.

In addition, I gave SF plenty of notice of my intent to sell as is. If they object to any part, they were free to take responsibility for the effort. It is not my choice to spend my time on this and I would have been perfectly happy to turn the whole project over to them. They did not respond thus they waive their right to object.
 
Last edited:
#55
@lolachampcar I really hope you have gotten at least one repair estimate from a reputable shop. As I stated on your accident thread, I think State Farm's position is going to be that your PD claim against them is going to primarily be based on the cost to repair the car (plus car rental during the repairs). You would be better off negotiating down from a shop estimate rather than negotiating up from their adjuster's estimate.

I know you are determined to do the whole car swap thing, which is certainly your right, but at the end of the day, you either have to make a PD settlement with State Farm or sue them to get any money from them. The unfortunate reality is that State Farm has more experience, knowledge, money, and power than you do in this area. To quote George Costanza from Seinfield, "You have no hand". This seems to be a matter of principle for you, but I fear that sticking to your principles here will end up costing you probably $10-15K. In my nearly five years as a claims adjuster for CSAA in San Francisco (working several thousand claims), I never once had a PD claimant do what you are trying to do. I never heard of a similar case from any of my coworkers or through the grapevine either.

The State Farm adjuster handling your PD claim just wants you to settle, so he/she can close your file and reduce their claims backlog. If that adjuster thinks your claim (based on repair cost) is worth $20K, and you ask for $40K (based on the car swap), he cannot just give you $40K. If he did, he would either get in big trouble or be demoted or fired. Even a $20K claim is likely above the average material damage claims adjuster's signing authority, so you can bet higher levels of management will be involved in reviewing/settling the claim.

You need to come up with tangible arguments for why what you are doing is financially justified. Your arguments about the time and hassle of dealing with State Farm and the repair process, etc. are not going to be very persuasive to them or to a court.

As I said before, I am on your side (as a fellow Tesla owner), and I am just trying to give you some insight to how they are probably thinking about this. Good luck, and please let me know how it turns out!
 
#56
I hope I'm not mucking up a very interesting development within the Tesla community with this post; it definitely is not my intention. As someone potentially but very peripherally interested in Bill's car, it is in my best interest to have the Sale price as low as possible. As someone who values lolachampcar's input in this forum very highly, I'd like to see him get the highest price possible.

And as someone who is right now negotiating for another car - not a Tesla - I really need to get my fingers in this as much as I need them in a closing car window....;)

That out of the way, a thought has occurred to me. As much as I truly look forward to being the first to drive a Model S to Alaska - our plan is to do this once the RV sites that service all those tourists making the trek to AK open up in May (only source to charge for a goodly number of thousands of miles) - I can make the argument that a far less insane answer would be to keep the P85 at our winter home and buy Bill's (sorry: Mrs. Lolachamp's) car, as it now has nicely been pre-Alaskanized, and have him throw it in a connex and shipped to Valdez. We'd be able to showcase it in our off-grid, all-solar tourist accommodations (something in our plans for our current Model S), and not worry that much about what Alaska's roads - esp. those in our specific region - will do to it. I wonder how much the shipping would be?
 
#57
Glenn,
Again, you are spot on point. My comments about my time and hassle are personal in nature only. My time only comes into play if an action is required at which point I will bill for that time.

I think it is your assessment of insurance companies that interests me the most. They do have all the power, are used to this and act accordingly. I already have a credible and verifiable argument for an as is sale being the more cost effective path. I also agree with you that I will need more should SF choose to be uncooperative. Although I really hate to waste Tesla's time, I am moving forward with a complete repair and trade in quotation from the local SC to support my other documentation.

I would not be remotely surprised if I find myself $45K out of pocket for nine to twelve months while an attorney sorts this out. That being said, I do not accept the status quo where the person/entity responsible for the damage dictates how things will be done and does so with a heavy hand. I am more than willing to work with any reasonable party and equally willing to take responsibility for doing things the hard way when working with unreasonable people.

I most certainly will be detailing the complete process as, if successful, I think this will aid others in dealing with damage and diminished value claims on the Model S. There is even knowledge to be had if I get my clock cleaned :)

Lastly, there is never any need to cradle your comments in an "I am on your side" way. All of your posts have been helpful and informative. You have been kind enough to share your unique experience and this has aided me in navigating the road I have chosen. Thank You.

AB,
My past experience is between $1800 and $2200 to ship race cars to Europe from Florida but then those data points are four years or more old.
 
#58
@772 State Farm cannot tell Bill whether or not to sell the car. That is 100% Bill's decision. The only point of contention is going to be how much State Farm thinks his property damage (PD) claim is worth and whether Bill accepts that or not, at some point in the future. In the meantime, Bill can do anything he wants with the car.
 
#59
Duplicate Post to Keep the Request for Bids in an Obvious Place :)

I would like to start by thanking everyone that took time to give me feedback on selling my wife’s S85. That information, combined with some valuable cost data on a similar repair, has provided a clear and compelling case for selling the car as is.

The car is now available for sale and delivery. I would like to solicit bids by email for the next four days at the close of which I will sit down with my wife and examine all of them in an attempt to pick the best buyer. This will be Tuesday afternoon. I prefer email over PM as I seem unable to manage the volume in my PM account. As mentioned earlier, it is my intention to to be fair throughout this process and disadvantage no one. I will make the car available for inspection throughout this process.

Information from seller:
The car has clear title without lien holder, is in our possession and is in my wife’s name.
The car can be delivered to the buyer as early as two days after the close of bidding and selection of a winning bid.
A successful bid should include a non-refundable deposit that (1) allows the buyer to rely on the purchase of the car and (2) allow the seller to rely on the sale so that the car can be removed from the market. It has been my past experience that these types of deposit are typically made within a few days of the successful bid and are routinely in the 10% range.
I would prefer all payments be made via wire transfer to Tesla referencing the order number for my wife’s replacement car.
Although not a mandatory requirement, it would be very helpful if the successful bidder would allow for my wife to remain in the car until the replacement arrives. If the buyer is kind enough to allow this, I would anticipate protections for the buyer such that the car remains in my wife’s name, on our insurance policy and there is a clear zero cost exit for the buyer should anything happen to the car during this time (like another accident ). Again, this is desirable for obvious reasons but is by no means a requirement of a successful bid.

My primary goals are to meet the buyer’s needs for value while fetching the best possible price for the car as is. I am open to any approach that helps to achieve both goals.

Thank You,
Bill Hart

bill
at
lolachampcar
with the obligatory dot com
 
#60
A potential bidder asked me to bracket the quarter panel damage and shoot a picture to better define the size of the damaged area.
 

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