TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

S85 v P85 comparison (extended experience)

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by efusco, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    I own an S85 (19", no-pano, + air suspension) since Dec. 3, 2012 and it is the first and only Model S I'd driven until 2 weeks ago when I was given the P85 Loaner (21", +Pano, no air suspension, + 3rd row seat) while my car was at the service center for it's "annual" maintenance and several lingering but minor warranty/Technical bulletin issues for a full 2 weeks. Over that time I put about 900 miles on the P85 loaner using it essentially identically how I use my S85. Thought I'd share my first hand extended experience in case others are wondering if they made the right choice or are trying to decide which model to get.

    *I did very little highway/distance driving beyond about 25 miles on a single trip, so can't/won't discuss highway cruising.
    **I spent significantly more time with 'spirited' driving with the loaner than in my car which may have negatively impacted the overall energy efficiency.

    • The P85 feels "lighter", the torque really allows the car to lightly take off from the line, my S85, in comparison, feels heavier both with launch and slowing. Not noticable with cruising.
    • My average Wh/mi in the P85 was around 330, comparably I have been getting around 300Wh/mi on average in my S85. Even in situations where I wasn't driving in a "spirited" fashion I struggled to see the same numbers I get in my S85...one familiar 5 mile segment I would get ~310Wh/mi where I typically get 280-290Wh/mi. Not sure if that's attributable to the bigger rims, pano roof, lower efficiency of the drive train, driving technique, or (most likely) some combination of those. In any case, it is much easier to get better energy efficiency in the S85 and for those whom maximizing range is highly important the S85 would be a key choice.
    • My S85 is much quieter than the P85. The Pano roof and tires may be factors, even discounting the "whine" of the motor in the P85. I could hear the motor at times I never hear it in my car.
    • The 21" rims are much more prone to hitting the curb.
    • It is hard to drive the speed limit in the P85...very hard!
    • The Alcantra roof liner and trim on the seats are a very nice touch, as are the metal pedals. In all, given the performance improvements and these added features the "up charge" for the Performance is, I believe, very reasonable...though I would, personally, go for the 19" rims for the lower cost, less frequently replaced tires and better energy efficiency.
    • I noticed that, compared to my S85, there seemed to be an incongruous drop in energy that was much more dramatic. In other words, I would drive 10 miles, but see a loss of 13-14 miles of rated range even with similar Wh/mi ratings (certainly not different enough to account for a 4 mile range difference), whereas my S85 seems to track quite closely on a miles traveled to miles used rating.
    • Pano roof is much quieter than I would have expected (at 80% open setting)--I'm sure that's true for an S85 with pano too.
    • Many times, under just mild to moderate acceleration while turning sharply I would get a single rear wheel spin and then the traction control would drop out power temporarily. Never experienced that in my S85
    • The real difference in performance, in my experience, is in the 0-40 MPH experience. The P85 just jumps out there with a whiplash inducing jolt. My wife complained I was giving her headaches. Above about 40 while there may be measurable differences, I don't really appreciate them in practical driving/usage. Again, to avoid defensive responses, the P85 is probably measurably quicker in the 30-60 acceleration range and even above too, but it just isn't nearly as noticable to me.
    Glad to entertain other experiences/comparisons and I hope this helps someone.
    2013-07-10 18.21.08.jpg 2013-03-06 22.17.05.jpg
     
  2. JPP

    JPP Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,843
    Location:
    SF Bay area, CA
    You mirror my thoughts almost exactly. I had a P85 (NOT +) loaner last week (5 days) from Fremont ('full spec' with jump seat). I did notice the tire/road noise more as well as some noise from the pano roof. I personally like the ride on my 19" better. I did like the better audio system on the loaner, but not worth $950 for me. Also did like the upgraded interior, but, again, not critical for me. It had the 'yacht floor' in the denter console--nice touch, but liiks like it will be prone to wear.
     
  3. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    FWIW, my friend Doug has a S85 and I have a P85. We drove each other's car for a few miles and came up with pretty much the identical list of differences. I couldn't comment on the Wh/mile part, but everything else was almost a perfect match of our take on the two models.
     
  4. Raven

    Raven Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    258
    Location:
    US
    Just turned my P85 loaner back in today for my S85. Same opinions mostly. Really glad I did the air suspension on my S85(well, didn't have a choice at the time). The standard suspension looks like it sits too high and has a lot more body roll in corners. Since air suspension is standard on P85, I asked the tech why both their loaners were standard while having every other option. He didn't have an answer. I'm also glad I didn't do the pano roof. Although the more open feel of the car was nice, the constant heat of the sun(although small) was not nor was the added air noise on the interstate. Again, it was slight, but as quiet as this car is, everything else becomes more noticeable.
    For actual comparison of S85 vs. P85: that extra punch in the gut from 0-40mph... Just. Wow. I'm very happy with the S85 performance but I can actually make myself nauseous with the P85. I became a pretty obnoxious driver because it's so intoxicating.
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    Raven, I too, in the end, am glad I didn't get the pano roof...the sun shining through was pretty warm compared to the solid roof. I did enjoy being able to open it at times, so a decent cover might ameliorate the direct sun heat/light issue enough that I'd change my opinion, but add in the issue of noise and I'm happy with my choice.


    It was a great experience to be able to drive the Performance and I greatly appreciate the STL Service Center "breaking the rules" to deliver it to me to use since they'd promised it to me previously. And, if money were no object, I'd probably buy the performance model just to have that speed/power available and for the upgraded interior, but money is an object and the fact of the matter is that the efficiency factor is key for my driving out here where I won't see a supercharger for another 2 years and any other charging infrastructure is very minimal.

    I'm glad that others mostly agree with my assessment, I'd hate to find out I'm a one off on these impressions.
     
  6. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,816
    Location:
    Wexford, PA
    Thanks so much for this comparison Evan, I have always wondered about what I am missing (or gaining) with an S85 instead of a P85.
     
  7. Andrew

    Andrew Model S #6151

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    344
    Location:
    Santa Monica, CA
    Our S85 is in for service right now (handful of niggly warranty bits, like the pano roof creak), and we've got a P85 (non +) loaner... The VIN number of the loaner is about 40 higher than our car, so it probably rolled off the line on the same day back in February.

    After just a few short trips, I'm actually glad we got the non-performance. The 21" tires are a harder (and I think louder) ride. The acceleration is actually a little scary, frankly.

    I do agree that our standard 85 feels a lot "heavier" than the performance. It feels like a 4,700 pound car... whereas the performance feels like it's, oh, something like 800 pounds lighter (and that's with the rear-facing child seats folded away, and an extra set of child seats sitting in the trunk for some reason, too).

    The loaner has about 3,100 miles on it. I think it was used as a test-drive car for awhile, too. The Trip A has something like 2,000 miles on it, showing an average Wh/mi of nearly 500! (My other clue: There's a driver profile set for "Tall John" -- I remember when we did the test drive back in January there was a "Tall John" setting in that car, too...funny.)

    Anyway, all that to say, thanks Evan. I think your review is spot-on. :)
     
  8. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,853
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    One of the other local owners let me drive his S85 back-to-back with my P85. I'd agree with your assessment of the performance. I'm not surprised that it could be a little harder to get the same Wh/mi numbers... the GO pedal beckons!
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    So does this mean I'm out of the doghouse for 20-30 Wh/mi of my average?
     
  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,853
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    No, just because of who you are... you're always in the doghouse.
     
  11. gnelson

    gnelson Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    Houston
    I found the information in this thread quite interesting. I have never ridden in a S85. I own a P85+ and have driven a P85 with both the 19 in and 21 in wheels. I think my P85+ rides as well as the P85 with 19 in wheels. I could not tell a difference in the noise. I just looked at the energy usage for the last 400 mi in my P85+ and it was under 300 Wh/mi. It was much higher when I first took delivery and was addicted to the acceleration. I took a 90 mi excursion this past weekend and averaged 278 Wh/mi. I was a caravan leader for some Teslas to a restaurant in San Leon, TX from Houston.

    I do have the pano roof and haven't noticed noise from it. The P85 with 19 in wheels had a regular roof.
     
  12. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    That 278 Wh/mi is what I get (give or take, obviously, based upon prevailing conditions and speed) when at steady highway speed. And I, too, got significantly worse numbers in my first couple months of ownership, but that was in the winter, so a bit difficult to know if it was my lead foot or the weather that was the major factor in my lower energy efficiency. It is good to know that 300Wh/mi is realistic on a regular basis in a P85.
     
  13. gnelson

    gnelson Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2013
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    Houston
    I live in Houston and can't drive at a constant speed too often. Even when we were in the caravan, we had several stop lights and signs. We also had to brake often due to traffic. The return trip was also at night with the headlights on. I think I will get better power consumption once the Houston heat subsides and the air conditioner use is lessened. We don't have too many cold days which have a more significant impact. I have seen the range drop on the Volt during cold days. I haven't used the heater in the Tesla yet.
     
  14. Crispix

    Crispix Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2013
    Messages:
    231
    Location:
    San Diego
    Great thread. I kinda look at my S85 as an opportunity: I'm getting a Tesla Model S to drive every day, it's going to be fantastic. And it comes with a nice extra bonus: every once in a while while my car is in the shop, there's a pretty good chance I'm going to get to drive a P85 for a day or two so I can accelerate until I puke.
     
  15. Ddowns2050

    Ddowns2050 Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Springfield, Mo.
    I live in the same area as you and I called you if you remember before I bought my model S. I'm just curious how did the loaner car work? Did you take yours to St. Louis, did they come and get it, did they bring the loaner to you or did you go get it?

    Thanks
     
  16. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,593
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    They did bring it down for me, but it was a one time deal only. Apparently only if you drop off at the service center for now on will they give you a loaner. For us, if they come pick up your vehicle they arrange for an Enterprise Rental car for the duration of your service.
     
  17. scott2613

    scott2613 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2013
    Messages:
    116
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    My experience P85+ non - pano roof, Michelin Pilot PS2's is very close to your findings. That tendency for one wheel to break loose when cornering is annoying. I have an 09 Acura TL (the all wheel drive model) with the same tires and it's only a subjective opinion but I feel it outperforms the Model S if both have traction control and stability augmentation enabled. Acura claims .97g lateral acceleration on the skidpad. For anyone interested in a range comparison between the S85 and P85 it is my feeling that driving style is a much larger factor. Recently, I made a 64 mile trip with 81 miles remaining. It was half country roads (speed 45-55) and freeway 55-65). By driving carefully at the limit and 5mph below when not being followed I arrived with 22 miles remaining having gained 5 miles. The watts per mile started out at 320 which is about how I've been driving normally. By the time I reached my destination it was down to 239. As soon as I was on surface streets in the city, (stop and go 25-35 mph) it began climbing again. Most of the trip was over flat terrain with only a few gentle grades. I also discovered it's possible to save watts by watching the orange line and rolling in the power smoothly when starting out or climbing a hill.
     
  18. ebbrey

    ebbrey Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2012
    Messages:
    60
    Location:
    Sandefjord, Norway
    Great writeup good reading while waiting for my S85 :)
     
  19. joer00

    joer00 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Location:
    Tampa
    No, it is NOT realistic unless it is mostly highway at slow speeds. I am at 358 Wh/mi now after 8200 miles. Just finished a trip to the SC in Ft Meyers. About 340 Wh/Mile down, >370 Wh/Mile up. The WIND makes a huge difference. I also got it down to less than 200 Wh/Mile when I had little power left. So this is possible, but real live driving and having some fun, you never get 300 Wh/Mile.
     
  20. Kaivball

    Kaivball Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2013
    Messages:
    670
    Location:
    Kalifornia
    Same here. 6000 mi,SE&A and 353 average so far.
     

Share This Page