State based EV road user charge (Overturned 18/10/23)

[paulp]

Move from fuel excise to a national excise on road tyres. That could be fair to all vehicle types - oops, there goes that idea.

Problem is too many people would then drive around on over worn tyres

 

[Fantomsss]

I will start voting Labour if this goes ahead in NSW.

 

[ICUDoc]

I will also start voting Labour if this goes ahead in NSW.
And I will encourage everyone I know to do the same.

 

[paulp]

I will also start voting Labour if this goes ahead in NSW.
And I will encourage everyone I know to do the same.

I cant vote labor in NSW as I live in SA, however my sitting liberal member is under no misunderstanding around what a decision to proceed might mean for his longevity in a swing seat that is traditionally labor.
Its the marginal seats that really matter

 

[dalec]

If I can make a suggestion. We're accepting the premise of a flawed argument if we simply appose a tax on EV's because they don't pay fuel excise.

A better way to perhaps approach this is accept the argument that roads get paid for by taxes, and if some new approach is required because an excise on fossil fuel misses a growing proportion of the fleet, then a new way of capturing that revenue that applies to ALL vehicles is required. Instead of only applying a fee to EV's, they should change the registration system to incorporate user-pays principles on all vehicles regardless of propulsion technology.

That will not only sharpen the minds a bit on how they impose such a tax, but they could even retain fuel excise, and introduce an odometer levy (or whatever) at a lower rate, which would still incentivise EV adoption, gradually increasing the levy over time as fuel excise tails off.

That way, the only levy that can be imposed is one that is applied to everyone, fairly, and they don't see EV owners as a target for a sting to help fix what is undoubtedly a budget tragedy post COVID.

 

[Brissienew]

I think everyone knows that the above suggestion is a much better way, but there is no political will to do it. Instead, there seems to be a view amongst some politicians that they have to introduce an EV tax now, when there will be little opposition as EV owners only make up a fraction of voters, before EV ownership takes off.

 

[paulp]

If I can make a suggestion. We're accepting the premise of a flawed argument if we simply appose a tax on EV's because they don't pay fuel excise.

A better way to perhaps approach this is accept the argument that roads get paid for by taxes, and if some new approach is required because an excise on fossil fuel misses a growing proportion of the fleet, then a new way of capturing that revenue that applies to ALL vehicles is required. Instead of only applying a fee to EV's, they should change the registration system to incorporate user-pays principles on all vehicles regardless of propulsion technology.

That will not only sharpen the minds a bit on how they impose such a tax, but they could even retain fuel excise, and introduce an odometer levy (or whatever) at a lower rate, which would still incentivise EV adoption, gradually increasing the levy over time as fuel excise tails off.

That way, the only levy that can be imposed is one that is applied to everyone, fairly, and they don't see EV owners as a target for a sting to help fix what is undoubtedly a budget tragedy post COVID.

Introducing a new tax on every car in Australia whilst retaining existing taxes in some form is a brilliant way to lose the next election in a landslide. It works with EV because there just arent enough voters.

 

[jaykaye]

NSW to follow suit if they get their way: https://twitter.com/7NewsSydney/status/1326797904686829571

@meloccom possible to change thread to NSW and SA with this announcement?

Everyone, please contact your local MP's to get ahead of this, make as much noise as possible:

Tweets:
NSW:
“What? Is NSW also looking at a new tax on electric vehicles @Dom_Perrottet?! Taxing clean cars more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more because they don’t pay tobacco excise. Crazy. @AndrewConstance, , @Matt_KeanMP why tax climate solutions?”

VIC:
“@timpallas is VIC considering a new tax on electric vehicles like SA? Vehicle pollution is the fastest rising source of carbon emissions, and kills more people than car crashes. Can VIC rule this craziness out? @LilyDAmbrosioMP?”

SA:
“Can’t believe @marshall_steven wants to slap a new tax on electric vehicle owners. Taxing people for NOT polluting is just crazy. SA is already 10 years behind the world on electric vehicles. @Corey_Wingard wants to make it worse.”


Phone:
SA:
Energy Minister - Dan Van Holst Pellekaan. - (08) 8226 1300
Transport Minister. - Cory Wingard - (08) 8463 6641
Treasurer. - Rob Lucas - (08) 8226 1866
Premier Steven Marshall - (08) 8226 1866

NSW:
Treasurer Perrottet - (02) 9877 0266

Vic:
Treasurer Pallas - (03) 7005 9474

Email:
SA:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

“Dear Minister van Holst Pellekaan, Minister Wingard, and Treasurer Lucas,

I’m an electric vehicle driver in South Australia and write to register my concern with the proposal to introduce a Road Usage Charge on EVs.

This will make yours the only government in the world introducing new taxes that punish electric vehicles, while the rest of the world actively supports EV uptake.

Governments should be supporting drivers like me who go electric, not singling us out for punishing new taxes.
EVs save lives. Vehicle pollution kills more Australians than car crashes, leading to over 1715 deaths each year across the country, or 115 in South Australia alone. It also has a terrible impact particularly on the health of children, the elderly, and those with respiratory problems.
EVs are the only path to your climate targets. Australia has among the most polluting vehicles in the world and transport is the fastest rising source of carbon pollution. Most EV owners like myself charge from renewable power wherever possible - and South Australia should be proud to have such a high portion of renewables on the grid. Every combustion engine vehicle sold will continue to pollute on our roads for up to 20 years, so if we’re going to tackle climate change and meet the net zero by 2050 target your government has set, we need to shift rapidly to electric vehicles. Your new tax will slow that.

EVs save SA money. The higher the uptake of EVs in South Australia, the lower electricity prices will be for all. More vehicles charging, particularly off-peak, means higher utilisation rates for grid investments, and huge potential to support and stabilise the electricity grid. Electric vehicles also save on healthcare costs, and generate demand for local electricity rather than imported oil.
It’s untrue that electric vehicles do not contribute taxes to pay for roads. In fact, electric vehicle owners often pay more overall tax on their vehicles than equivalent combustion engine vehicles. We pay tax on electricity, and often pay higher rates of GST, Luxury Car Tax, and Stamp Duty than other vehicles because the up-front price premium of electric vehicles means purchase prices are currently higher. What’s more, EVs are not the primary reason for fuel excise reducing; will your government hit hybrid and efficient combustion engines with this new tax too?

If Road Usage Charges are to levied on electric vehicles, those charges should be more than offset by purchase price incentives or stamp duty discounts until EVs reach price parity with internal-combustion vehicles. Any other approach simply punishes electric vehicles and makes South Australia an embarrassing laggard on transport emissions reduction.
Sincerely.”


VIC:
[email protected], [email protected]

“Dear Treasurer Pallas and Minister D’Ambrosio,

I’m an electric vehicle driver and very concerned that Victoria might follow the lead of South Australia in slapping a new tax on driving electric vehicles.

Taxing clean vehicles more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more just because they don’t smoke. It doesn’t make sense.

If Victoria is serious about meeting its net zero by 2050 climate targets, we need to rapidly accelerate electric vehicle uptake - not whack new taxes on them! Victoria is already 10 years behind the pace on electric vehicles, with all our major trading partners like the EU, China, and the US having 4-10x as many electric cars as Victoria. A new tax would slow us down even further, and punish people like me who are already paying more so we can pollute less.

Can you rule out Victoria going down this path?

Thanks”


NSW:
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

“Dear Treasurer Perrottet and Ministers Kean and Constance,

I’m an electric vehicle driver and very concerned that NSW might follow the lead of South Australia in trying to slap a new tax on driving electric vehicles.

Taxing clean vehicles more because they don’t pay fuel excise is like taxing non-smokers more just because they don’t smoke. It doesn’t make sense.

If NSW is serious about meeting its net zero by 2050 climate targets, we need to rapidly accelerate electric vehicle uptake - not whack new taxes on them! NSW is already 10 years behind the pace on electric vehicles, with all our major trading partners like the EU, China, and the US having 4-10x as many electric cars. A new tax would slow us down even further, and punish people like me who are already paying more so we can pollute less.

Can you rule out NSW going down this path?”

Thank you! I've send emails and tweeted.

 

[baillies]

So maybe it would be best to introduce this tax on EV’s now, as it is politicaly easier than placing on all cars, in preparation for the long term need and compensate with something like removing stamp duty on EV’s?

 

[moa999]

NSW budget today, so I guess we will find out.

 

[Chuq]

I'm seeing articles about the NSW budget, even this one specifically about tax reform, and no mention of EVs or RUC. Does that mean NSW is safe?

 

[Hairyman]

I think it will depend on their overall climate change strategy. They might want to avoid imposing specific taxes on EVs as part of that.

 

[Vostok]

I think it will depend on their overall climate change strategy. They might want to avoid imposing specific taxes on EVs as part of that.

The NSW Energy and Environment Minister, Matt Kean, drives a Model 3, so there’s at least one voice in the Cabinet room that is unlikely to support such a policy. He’s also a massive support of renewable energy and has been instrumental in establishing the NSW Renewable Energy zones.

 

[jamesgo]

Sadly add Victoria to the new EV tax list:

The state is also introducing a "modest'' levy on drivers of zero and low-emission vehicles in lieu of fuel excise paid by other drivers — but there will $45 million to promote the adoption of these types of cars.
Treasurer to spend big on services and business support, booking $23.3b deficit in Budget

 

[meloccom]

Sadly add Victoria to the new EV tax list:

The state is also introducing a "modest'' levy on drivers of zero and low-emission vehicles in lieu of fuel excise paid by other drivers — but there will $45 million to promote the adoption of these types of cars.
Treasurer to spend big on services and business support, booking $23.3b deficit in Budget

And the title of this thread gets longer.

 

[paulp]

Sadly add Victoria to the new EV tax list:

The state is also introducing a "modest'' levy on drivers of zero and low-emission vehicles in lieu of fuel excise paid by other drivers — but there will $45 million to promote the adoption of these types of cars.
Treasurer to spend big on services and business support, booking $23.3b deficit in Budget

New advertising campaign;

Please buy an EV so we can tax you

 

[Candleflame]

its completely rediculous. what the hell are NSW/SA/Victoria thinking????

 

[doctorwho]

I hope that they plan differential price charging depending on the location. 40,000km yearly in the country is routine, not in the city

 

[Vostok]

I’m OK paying an EV user charge, provided ICE drivers are charged for the consequential costs of the pollution they generate (3000 premature deaths per year in Oz due to air pollution/noxious gases, other respiratory damage health costs, and the impact of their CO2 emissions).

 

[moa999]

Fed Treasurer: Our projected income from fuel tax is decreasing.
NSW/VIC/SA: Don't worry, we're going to give a subsidy to V12 vehicles
Fed Treasurer: What about diesels?
NSW/VIC/SA: You already give a subsidy to them.
Fed Treasurer: Oh yeah.

Fed Treasurer: We're also projecting a decrease in cigarette taxes
NSW/VIC/SA: Don't worry. We're going to give a $500 voucher to every Yr 12 student to use on cigarettes.

Fed Treasure: Great. Also what about electric vehicles. I know we get $3-5k in extra in GST and luxury tax from the batteries but I'm worried about the annual tax.
NSW/VIC/SA: Got you there. We're going to tax them out of existence.

Madness.