Safety Deal Breaker after Model X Test Drive

[CTemp222]

Great point….Maybe even lower the 2nd row seat so the toddler can't reach the hinge. I just wish they gave us more time to mess around with the car at the event.

Have you tried to get a test drive of the X? I just got one yesterday.
If there are not any spots open i'm sure an X owner would let you look at the car in detail, ask around the forum and you will find one.

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Just remembered that you already test drove the X, just ask around :smile:

 

[ohmman]

Tough crowd.

I think much of the response had to do with your framing of the issue. If you'd gone with something more like, "We're disappointed the car isn't for us - and one minor thing that concerns us is our kids getting their fingers caught in the FWD hinges", you might have received a gentler response.

I can't argue with someone deciding the car isn't for them because of any number of issues, falcon wing doors definitely included in that list. That's a reasonable and personal outcome. Hopefully you'll be able to find another Tesla or other EV in the future that meets your needs. Owning a Tesla for two years, I'll definitely say that I continue to love my MS. We'll see how it goes with the MX.

Good luck.

 

[pvogel]

This was tested by the sales person at the driving event. Apparently it wasn't working because the FWD continued to close on his fingers until he released it.

Listen, I get it. Kids will learn the hard way. I'm an educated man that is an adrenaline junky. I surf, summit mountains and firmly believe that you learn the hard way sometimes. Does that make me want my kids to risk unnecessary harm when the bar of expectations is raised that high? No.

Do I believe that other car hinges will create the same risk? Not as high in this situation: I failed to mention in the OP that my wife and I are mainly concerned with the kids in child seats. In conventional cars, their hands and arms are more isolated from the doors. Once fastened down, they can't reach their hands to the corners of the doors. When situated in the Model X in a safety child seat, they are more elevated on the seat. The FWD with the hinge closes directly (WITHOUT release) above the child seat.

Great points, it's just my opinion. Just wanted to point it out. It's a great car and I'm just disappointed I didn't love it more. My wife didn't LOVE it for another reason. It's not for us. That's it. Wasn't expecting such a response, but just wanted to bring it up for buyers to be aware of this. Tough crowd!

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I haven't replied because my practice was swamped this week. First post because Tesla removed the forums on their page so I diverted to this forum. Didn't know I was required to respond back so quickly.

Yes, children will be overall safer in the Model X compared to any other vehicle. Trust me, I've done my research. Do I want to constantly remind them every time I go to the store to put their hands down every time I close the FWD? No. One less thing to do. Again, my wife had her issues with the car's FWD (non safety issue), but I'd rather you flame me than my wife. Tough crowd.

Apologies for ALL of us (including me) for being, as you say, a "tough crowd" we tend to be a little defensive

Fundamentally, it's your choice to make and I'm sure you are making the right choice for your family. We were simply responding with our opinion that this is, in fact, safer than alternatives. If the finger pinch is a concern it should be traded off against the 5-star in all categories safety rating of the the car (which you won't find in any comparable car) remember, a 5 star rating has HALF the risk of serious injury of a 4 star rating in the same test. (5% vs 10% or 10% vs 20% depending on which specific test you are looking at (i.e. side impact vs front impact). Last I measured it looked like the seat pan, uncompressed is 30" from the bottom of the center roof structure on which the falcon doors are mounted, and it's another 4-5" from there to the hinge point. Even with the several inch lift of a huge car seat a kid's gonna need a lot of arm freedom (which most of the car seats I've seen don't allow) AND some serious monkey arms to be able to reach that hinge point for it to even be a risk at all.

Again, make the decision that's right for you and your wife, but, IMHO, don't make it on a misperception of the risk of the pinch risk without considering the much greater risks of injury in comparable cars.

Peter+

 

[Mark Z]

I bet you could buy or make a third party foam insert to place on the ceiling where the door hinges, this way the kids cannot put their fingers in the hinge. Velcro it to the ceiling so you can take it out whenever you want to.

Excellent idea. A thin foam panel several inches wider than the center ceiling would also help with heads hitting the center ceiling when sitting in the center seat.

Examining the area carefully, I am impressed that IMHO, Tesla Motors designed the "Model X" trim plate with a slant at the top that helps anyone who grabs the area to have fingers slide off and down.

It is disconcerting when looking at the beautiful Model X trim around the opening for the falcon wing door and see fingerprints from my riders. That means they had their fingers on the location where a pinch or crush could take place. I totally understand the concern of the OP.

One help would be a sensor to warn if fingers are on the trim. Think about a house lamp where the user touches the metal of the lamp to turn it on and off. Imagine the plastic trim around the falcon wing opening having a metal touch plate that sounds a chime when being touched. While that would help, it wouldn't stop a last second attempt to push fingers into the crush zone. Another option would be a light beam, like a garage door opener has.

What is interesting is the lack of visual queues about the hazard. The attractive trim that shows "Model X" doesn't look threatening. There are many labels that could assist those who have a need to know. This one is wide and features two visual queues.

Pinch Point Hazard Keep Hands Clear ANSI Warning Label, SKU: LB-2430

While not pretty, IMHO, I would suggest the use of this label for UBER Model X drivers to warn your paying passengers.

 

[beths11]

Guys,.....his wife didn't like the car......pinch point not the real issue, just his issue and yes he made a big deal out of it. He won't say what his wife's issue is with the car.

 

[CTemp222]

Excellent idea. A thin foam panel several inches wider than the center ceiling would also help with heads hitting the center ceiling when sitting in the center seat.

Examining the area carefully, I am impressed that Tesla Motors designed the "Model X" trim plate with a slant at the top that helps anyone who grabs the area to have fingers slide off and down.

It is disconcerting when looking at the beautiful Model X trim around the opening for the falcon wing door and see fingerprints from my riders. That means they had their fingers on the location where a pinch or crush could take place. I totally understand the concern of the OP.

One help would be a sensor to warn if fingers are on the trim. Think about a house lamp where the user touches the metal of the lamp to turn it on and off. Imagine the plastic trim around the falcon wing opening having a touch plate that sounds a chime when being touched. While that would help, it wouldn't stop a last second attempt to push fingers into the crush zone. Another option would be a light beam, like a garage door opener has.

What is interesting is the lack of visual queues about the hazard. The attractive trim that shows "Model X" doesn't look threatening. There are many labels that could assist those who have a need to know. This one is wide and features two visual queues.

View attachment 111603
Pinch Point Hazard Keep Hands Clear ANSI Warning Label, SKU: LB-2430

While not pretty, IMHO, I would suggest the use of this label for UBER Model X drivers to warn your paying passengers.

That lamp you are talking about probably works because it has a charge on it and when you touch it electrons move and ground the object. This would only work for conductive metals, so it wouldn't work on plastic. The light beam would work but it would add complexity to a car that is extremely complex. The most simple idea would be an aftermarket item that blocks the hinge.

 

[Mark Z]

That lamp you are talking about probably works because it has a charge on it and when you touch it electrons move and ground the object. This would only work for conductive metals, so it wouldn't work on plastic. The light beam would work but it would add complexity to a car that is extremely complex. The most simple idea would be an aftermarket item that blocks the hinge.

I assumed that the added touch plate would be metal and installed as a 3rd party provided warning device. I have added the word "metal" to the original post.

 

[CTemp222]

I assumed that the added touch plate would be metal and installed as a 3rd party provided warning device. I have added the word "metal" to the original post.

I just don't know how they would wire that into the X without having to cut open panels.

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Guys,.....his wife didn't like the car......pinch point not the real issue, just his issue and yes he made a big deal out of it. He won't say what his wife's issue is with the car.

Good point, jyl what was your wifes problem with the X?

 

[pvogel]

I just don't know how they would wire that into the X without having to cut open panels.

It would be easy enough to have a plate up there with a battery-powered piezo-electric beeper and touch sensitivity so it would beep when touched to warn the toucher to move their hands and anyone else not to close the door. IF this were a real serious concern, which I don't think it is so it wouldn't warrant the development cost for such a device.

 

[Mark Z]

I just don't know how they would wire that into the X without having to cut open panels.

I agree with pvogel (I was typing this response while he posted).

I would assume two stick on metal plates with wires to a battery operated chime on the ceiling between the two falcon wing door openings. There would be no modifications to the vehicle.

This would be a 3rd party manufactured device and only added to vehicles where the driver felt it would help and was willing to pay for such a device.

 

[CarlK]

Again, my wife had her issues with the car's FWD (non safety issue), but I'd rather you flame me than my wife. Tough crowd.

It's not a tough crowd but a crowd with huge amounts of cumulated knowledge of the car than a first time poster. No one would have bothered you if you just honestely say your wife doesn't like the FWD instead of publishing that non-issue with a sentionalized title worthy of a SA article.

After all those opinions have been presented I wonder if anyone, especially the op, or his wife, has decided that safety issues, in particular roll over protection, would make it a deal breaker for all SUV's except the Model X?

 

[ohmman]

After all those opinions have been presented I wonder if anyone, especially the op, has decided that safety issues, in particular roll over protection, would make it a deal breaker for all SUV's except the Model X?

The truth is, we're making assumptions (educated from MS experience, of course) about the safety of the MX. I haven't seen third party results of safety testing yet. I don't want to be the hypocrite who suggests that we look at facts regarding OP's claim but then asserts an alternate position without facts.

Let's wait for the evidence. If I've missed third party test results, let me know - I'm looking forward to seeing them.

 

[pvogel]

The truth is, we're making assumptions (educated from MS experience, of course) about the safety of the MX. I haven't seen third party results of safety testing yet. I don't want to be the hypocrite who suggests that we look at facts regarding OP's claim but then asserts an alternate position without facts.

Let's wait for the evidence. If I've missed third party test results, let me know - I'm looking forward to seeing them.

Last I checked NHTSA/IIHP takes data from the manufacturer's tests.

The results of the tests were presented at the reveal: 5 star in every category. It was one of the first few slides from Elon.

As you can see, it would almost get a 6-star rating if such a thing existed!


Peter+

 

[Xminus6]

It would be easy enough to have a plate up there with a battery-powered piezo-electric beeper and touch sensitivity so it would beep when touched to warn the toucher to move their hands and anyone else not to close the door. IF this were a real serious concern, which I don't think it is so it wouldn't warrant the development cost for such a device.

Pretty easy I would think. Our paper shredder has a touch sensitive shut-off switch incorporated into the bezel of the paper feed slot.

 

[bonnie]

It would be easy enough to have a plate up there with a battery-powered piezo-electric beeper and touch sensitivity so it would beep when touched to warn the toucher to move their hands and anyone else not to close the door. IF this were a real serious concern, which I don't think it is so it wouldn't warrant the development cost for such a device.

Right. There are so many other things that are worthy of engineering time. This isn't one.

 

[dhanson865]

Recently gave an old friend a ride in our Model S. Afterwards we did a walk around and I opened the frunk. Their first comment wasn't about the extra space, but one of great concern. The car was obviously not very safe. There was no engine block to protect the occupants in a front end collision. Until folks are educated about such misconceptions, perception is the reality.

That would be a concern only if a sniper rifle or tank gun is aimed at the driver from a low angle. I'd expect the gunner to know to raise their aim and go for the head shot. Some people just don't understand how little protection an engine block is in a war zone.

 

[ohmman]

Last I checked NHTSA/IIHP takes data from the manufacturer's tests.

The results of the tests were presented at the reveal: 5 star in every category. It was one of the first few slides from Elon.

His words were that they "expected" that. I don't see that they've received them. Thanks for educating me on how the NHTSA/IIHP process works, though (I went and read some more as well). So at this point we're taking Tesla's word, which I think is consistent with a well educated guess, but still not fully confirmed.

 

[aesculus]

I bet you could buy or make a third party foam insert to place on the ceiling where the door hinges, this way the kids cannot put their fingers in the hinge. Velcro it to the ceiling so you can take it out whenever you want to.

Actually a very simple solution is to get some light density foam and glue it to one of the door pieces to fill in the slot. When the door closed this foam would get compressed and you would never see it. While open it would completely fill the gap and keep toddlers fingers from being placed in the gap.

Later when it was not longer needed you would just peal it off if you used one of rubber based glues. Get it in black and it would blend it and even look lit it belonged to some extent.

 

[proven]

I was initially concerned about the same thing--kids sticking their hands up top and getting fingers stuck in the closing door. However, I've realized that my 5 and 4 year olds exhibit caution around doors in general (they've both been pinched by something at some point) and they are very good about keeping their hands away from the doors in our other cars. I'm no longer worried about it.

 

[dhanson865]

Reminds me of when I worked in a hospital. I always thought that the elevator doors were scary, and wondered if they would stop and reverse if something were caught in them. I decided to try it using my pen (and I wonder why the salesman didn't use a pen or piece of cardboard). I pushed the "door close" button. My pen got crushed.

Deal breaker.

No, really, there are many dangers, and many perceived dangers. As a parent, I hope you teach your kids to keep their fingers out of house doors, out from under windows, away from outlets, away from fans, keep them from jumping on beds, don't let them watch too much TV or games, don't let them jump off rocks or go swimming, don't let them learn to drive, don't let them eat meat, don't let them learn to like football or baseball or any sport for that matter.

Saying it's a deal breaker when every car has doors and windows and they travel among lower IQ drivers is a little silly.

Odd, I've used my bare hand or shoe covered foot to stop dozens of elevator doors here in TN. I'd probably pull out before I got crushed but I've never seen one not react to a photo sensor or a resistance sensor of some type. I've literally had one close enough that I had to wait for the door to retract slightly before I could pull my arm out but I've never had one put enough force on my arm to make it uncomfortable.