Safety Score

[valem]

Interesting that you had AP cross a double yellow into oncoming traffic.... because when I'm on AP I can't get it to change lane if there is a solid line, even on the highway.

 

[Knightshade]

Ooh look, another term. It's not in "general release yet." Earlier it was "wide release."

Even @Knightshade, the Tesla stock multimillionare, can't decide how to refer to the state of FSD's "release"

Naah -Everyone understands it, you just find it funny to pretend you don't.

It's pretty weird.

FSDBeta has been given to a tiny subset of the total fleet for testing and development purposes. It has been taken away from some people too.

It's not something you can purchase, you're not "entitled" to it.

It's working toward a product they intend to eventually release to the whole fleet, completing the final undelivered feature of the current FSD package. But it is not, currently, that thing.

None of this is hard to understand unless you put a lot of effort into not understanding it.

You can also follow all of that up with the clear argument that a subscription to FSD is not the same thing as buying FSD for $12K

Of course it's not the same thing.

Any more than renting a car is the same thing as owning a car. There's lots of differences between those, legally, what you can do with the thing, what you are entitled to for your money, etc.

Again it must be exhausting for you to constantly, intentionally, pretend not to understand simple stuff.

 

[gearchruncher]

It's also the most obvious reason it says it's intended for use on controlled access freeways

Hmm, you use the word "freeway" but Tesla uses "highway" in the manual, and you keep arguing that words matter and the traffic code is clear what a freeway is, despite Tesla never once using that term in the manual.

 

[gearchruncher]

It's working toward a product that WILL eventually be released to the whole fleet, completing the final undelivered feature of the current FSD package. But it is not, currently, that thing.

Except you know this isn't true. Nobody has any idea if Tesla will release this FSD beta. They have no contractual obligation to. They can charge more for it if they want. They can call anything they want city streets autosteer and ship it and be done.

Any more than renting a car is the same thing as owning a car.

The function and composition of the car does not change because someone else owns it and rents it to you vs direct ownership. "Your car has all the equipment required to be purchased but not rented" is a crazy statement.

Everyone understands it, you just find it funny to pretend you don't.

Explain the multiple threads that constantly pop up with people asking how they can get FSD beta if "everyone understands it" and tell me where on Tesla.com I can point people so they can get the official story?

 

[Knightshade]

Except you know this isn't true. Nobody has any idea if Tesla will release this FSD beta.

Dude. Thanks for proving how much work you put into pretending to not understand.

Not only did I JUST tell you there's nothing insuring Tesla will wide-release FSDBeta, I specifically told you that was not the thing they would wide release

But it is not, currently, that thing

Yet somehow you "misunderstood" that to say the exact opposite.

The owed feature, for pre 3/19 buyers, is autosteer on city streets.

A functionality currently being developed, but not yet finished, via FSDBeta.

THAT (city streets, not FSDBeta) will be wide released to all FSD owners and renters when done.


Now, to folks who bought before 3/19- they're actually owed quite a bit more, well beyond EVERYTHING in FSDBeta. That will be developed and released at some future time.



I eagerly await you somehow totally misunderstanding this 793rd time you have had this explained to you

The function and composition of the car does not change because someone else owns it and rents it to you vs direct ownership.

LOTS of stuff changes if you own or rent.


For example if you own it, you are responsible for keeping it in good repair.

If you rent, someone ELSE has all the repair obligations.


If you own it you're responsible for registration/plates/inspection.

If you rent it, someone ELSE has those obligations.


If you own it, you're free to modify the vehicle however you wish.

If you rent it, you are not free to modify it in any way.


If you own it you can drive it anywhere you want, as much as you want.

if you rent it, your ability to do either may be limited by the rental terms.


An owned car is different from a rented car in a slew of ways.


I imagine one could list a dozen more obvious differences, but you'd still manage to find a way to "not understand"[/QUOTE]

 

[SalisburySam]

I’ve gone through almost a full 6-pack of Jiffy Pop reading this less-than-illuminating thread. With only one pack left, I’ll have to skip out for resupply. Gosh I hope I’ll be able to catch up.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

ya, just no. to all of it

The X was basically brand new & I maybe wrong on the year, possible '19 since that was my last DU replacement in the S which would have been my last service w/ a loaner.

controlled access and median divided makes a Freeway , this is a fact
potato potato. states have differing rules. RTFM

what firmware/ vehicle do you have anyway?

dear god...rather than post this one I just deleted my last, yes
-I thought you deleted something I replied to as well (maybe not, sry..too many posts - no one is owed anything, no, I agree, facts of life)
this is so OT and I didn't want or expect a response to my original post. there was nothing to reply to
go troll elsewhere, at least you correct some inaccuracies but you are not always correct fyi

 

[Jigglypuff]

FSD may be beta, like autostreet is beta, but FSD is a lot more dangerous.

 

[Raurele]

Uh...AP is intended for use on divided, controlled access, freeways.

So no place it's intended to be used has double yellow lines with oncoming traffic.




Again, this is user error-operating AP on a road it's explicitly not intended to be used on per the owners manual.


The fact that years later people still get this basic stuff wrong on using wide-release features is a great example of why they choose to limit early testing of unfinished software to a narrow group though.

I used it on any and all roads in the Bay Area. you're infos not really correct.

 

[Mark II]

Anyone else get a delayed ding to their safety score for FCW? Yesterday my safety score was 100 and included all results up to my last drive the same day. Today it dropped to 98 and I never used my car. I looked at the details and saw a FCW on 2/21 that was never there before??

I should note software was updated to 2022.4.5.3 last night (from 2022.4.5.1). I did not check the score after, so it may have caused the ding?

 

[Barklikeadog]

What a crazy world when we blame customers for being confused by this. Tesla makes none of this clear, and it's particularly broken given every single AP feature is in beta, so how is FSD different. So yeah, when Tesla keeps calling it "FSD beta" they are at fault for confusing people. Where does Tesla say it's "FSD beta narrow release"? Heck, we had titles like this in October: "Tesla officially starts its ‘wider release’ of Full Self-Driving Beta in the US"


This is the real key everyone needs to know. You are NEVER owed access to it, no matter what you paid, no matter how "wide it goes.". Tesla is not selling access to features seen in "FSD beta". The only thing they are selling you is city streets autosteer, which has no defined functionality. Tesla can charge you $12K, start sending FSD beta to people that never paid for anything, and as long as someday they put "city streets autosteer" on your car, they are done.

You get people here going "don't worry, you'll get it someday when it goes "wider"" but that's not for sure. When they say Tesla is not selling access to the FSD beta "narrow release", what they really mean is that there is absolutely zero timeframe or feature set they have sold to anyone, so who knows what you will get someday. There is no promise that what Tesla releases "wider" has anything to do with what you see on YouTube videos today. These people tend to see this as totally fine and buyer beware and will belittle anyone that could be so dumb as to believe because you paid $12K for a feature titled "Full Self Driving Capability" that what you will get is the software called "Full Self Driving".

Thanks for posting these comments. They are more in line with what I was asking and better than the snarky responses I had.

 

[Barklikeadog]

It's also great evidence that Tesla is completely disingenuous and likes the fact that people confuse this, and is not taking safety seriously.

When AP2 first came out in 2017, it WOULD NOT TURN ON when not on an approved road. They have the code to do this. They know what kind of road it is. But then in later 2017, they turned off the automatic limit, and now people like you blame the users and try and use it as evidence about how dumb people are.

Explain why Tesla allows you to turn it on when on "explicitly not intended" roads when they could just block it in code they already have?

That's always the easy answer... driver fault. It's a shortcut. Can't blame the software, the software doesn't post on twitter that the car did this or that.
This type of thing takes me back to the auto-summon guy who had his car drive under the back of a semi trailer load. Huge fight over fault on this.
Guy says he parked, went into a store, came out, car was wrecked.
Tesla says guy parked, activated summon, got out 1 second later, (car wrecks) guy opens door again minutes later.

Apparently he activated summon on accident, and the prompt on the screen was to DISABLE summon... well he got out of the car not seeing that and chaos ensued.
Tesla says: operator error.
Later on Tesla updates the software where you have to CONFIRM summon, otherwise nothing happens. (Which makes more sense)
To me, that's basically an admission of a design mistake on the company. Yet the community here basically piled on this guy as an idiot.

edit- I think that was also when Tesla revealed that the sensors could not 'see' above the bumper or anything thin like a bicycle.

 

[Knightshade]

I used it on any and all roads in the Bay Area. you're infos not really correct.

My info is literally quoting the owners manual of the car.

It's absolutely correct.


The fact is it's intended to be used on a specific type of road, as cited.

The fact it might work on a different type of road does not change that fact.

But it does explain that it's user error in cases where it does not work right on different road types than what is intended.

 

[gearchruncher]

My info is literally quoting the owners manual of the car.

The "literally quoting" where you talk about the manual using the term "freeway" 6+ times in this thread despite the fact that the Tesla manual doesn't have the word freeway in it a single time?

But it does explain that it's user error in cases where it does not work right on different road types than what is intended.

You gonna answer the question as to WHY Tesla allows use on these roads when they can prevent it with a single line of code and have done so in the past?

 

[MP3Mike]

Anyone else get a delayed ding to their safety score for FCW? Yesterday my safety score was 100 and included all results up to my last drive the same day. Today it dropped to 98 and I never used my car. I looked at the details and saw a FCW on 2/21 that was never there before??

I should note software was updated to 2022.4.5.3 last night (from 2022.4.5.1). I did not check the score after, so it may have caused the ding?

Since the score is based on the last 30 days it could be that a 100% day rolled off and your more recent day was lower so your score dropped.

 

[Mark II]

Since the score is based on the last 30 days it could be that a 100% day rolled off and your more recent day was lower so your score dropped.

Nope, I have a 30 day rolling spreadsheet where I enter my numbers every day. The number for 2/21 was 100 score and 10 miles. As of 2/28 it was still showing that in the app. My spreadsheet also tells me the future numbers for the next 30 days, so I can see what will happen if I don't drive, etc. Then the day after I updated the car I noticed the score had suddenly dropped to 98. It may have dropped right after the update, however I did not check the score then. I went back and checked all the data and found 2/21 had changed to 75 score and 15 miles. After I updated the number in the spreadsheet it shows the score would have dropped to 99 on that day (i.e. 2/21), and then 98 on 2/24, etc.

So this was definitely a score change 1 week after the fact.

 

[DanDi58]

Well, I'm tapping out of waiting for FSD beta. My safety score dropped to 97 and I'm tired of waiting. I'll probably be back when it's a more general release. Of course, this means those of you that have been waiting will be getting in immediately.....!

 

[mswlogo]

The reason for Safety Score isn’t to filter FSD Beta. It’s to Beta Test Safety Score

GM and others are getting into auto insurance and it’s rate will be based on your driving metrics.

 

[gearchruncher]

The reason for Safety Score isn’t to filter FSD Beta. It’s to Beta Test Safety Score

Ha. That's why the "safety score" showed up just a few days before they started using it to filter the FSD beta list, and why it doesn't use things like speeding or running red lights to reduce your score, but does focus on if you ignore AP alerts or how close you follow. It's also why supposedly feeding it with tons of miles of data, they keep changing how it works.

It's totally there as a good statistical metric on how likely you are to have an accident and would pass an insurance commissioner review as an unbiased actuarial tool, right?

 

[SalisburySam]

It's totally there as a good statistical metric on how likely you are to have an accident and would pass an insurance commissioner review as an unbiased actuarial tool, right?

Sure, let’s go with that.