Safety Score

[Eno Deb]

I don't care because of some nebulous fear about being tracked or data being used for marketing. I find a gamified safety rating system patronizing, and really don't want to own a car with that feature. The fact that data privacy may be an avenue towards making sure I can still have a Tesla, without this being turned on, is simply a means, not an end.

I agree with you. The section in the Tesla blog about what happens to the collected data when the vehicle is sold doesn't make it sound like this is just a temporary thing for people wanting to sign up for the FSD beta. Personally I don't want to be constantly monitored and scored (reminds me a lot of the "social scores" that are used in authoritarian countries to discipline people). I also don't want my car to snitch to my insurance company and be penalized when I have some fun (which I only do if it's safe). If they start collecting this data for everyone, that would be completely unacceptable IMO.

 

[EVNow]

I also don't want my car to snitch to my insurance company and be penalized when I have some fun (which I only do if it's safe).

OTOH, is it fair that people who actually drive safely pay extra in insurance because there are people who have some fun ? It is only fair that people who have "some fun" pay a little bit more for it.

ps : Wonder what everyone thinks about credit scores.

 

[techlogik]

So basically make sure you don’t use any AP or system features and hand drive the car. With that said, they don’t address a bunch of information, like turning safety features off because they are dangerous. But in their minds it is safe. Like how the AP will freak out and slam on the breaks especially in vision cars while in a highway and traffic starts slowing and stopping ahead even on 7. So now the auto safety system they developed actually will lower your score if you use it. System is dangerous at times in normal conditions with real traffic and driving IMHO.

See how many people actually with vision are included in this expanded beta. Nice to know how people drive and acted to be selected to reverse engineer what they think is safe and good for Beta.

 

[Eno Deb]

OTOH, is it fair that people who actually drive safely don't pay extra in insurance because there are people have some fun ? It is only fair that people who have "some fun" pay a little bit more for it.

That assumes that these scores accurately reflect the driving safety, which I don't think they do. Context matters, and that cannot be captured by vehicle sensors. I drive super carefully when other cars are around, but sometimes have "some fun" when the situation allows it (e.g. empty country road or similar). I haven't been in an accident for 25+ years.

 

[hybridbear]

We still don’t have it in the app. But we haven’t updated the app on all devices. We only have new app on both our iPads. Our iPhones still have old app because I don’t like the new UI. Could that be the reason why we don’t get a score even after opting in to FSD data analysis?

 

[Tam]

...hand drive the car...

It is just like passing a DMV driving test without using FSD.

So basically make sure you don’t use any AP or system features...

You can still use AP but that use only credits you mileage and not other skills.

It says you are not penalized for using AP:

"I had a Forward Collision Warning while Autopilot was engaged. Will my Safety Score be impacted?
No. The Safety Score formula ignores any events (not just Forward Collision Warnings) that occur while Autopilot is engaged and appropriately utilized. This does not include Forced Autopilot Disengagement."

 

[brkaus]

We still don’t have it in the app. But we haven’t updated the app on all devices. We only have new app on both our iPads. Our iPhones still have old app because I don’t like the new UI. Could that be the reason why we don’t get a score even after opting in to FSD data analysis?

If you have app version 4.1, logout of the Tesla account on that app and login again.

 

[EVNow]

That assumes that these scores accurately reflect the driving safety, which I don't think they do. Context matters, and that cannot be captured by vehicle sensors. I drive super carefully when other cars are around, but sometimes have "some fun" when the situation allows it (e.g. empty country road or similar). I haven't been in an accident for 25+ years.

Safety Rating will get better to take into account the context.

 

[brkaus]

Now I have to explain to my daughter why her learners permit driving sessions have been indefinitely suspended and she may have to wait on her license.

 

[EVNow]

So basically make sure you don’t use any AP or system features and hand drive the car.

Opposite of what Tesla says. If you use AP - things like Collision and lane departure (apparently) don't count. You get free miles without any issues.

 

[Tam]

...Could that be the reason why we don’t get a score even after opting in to FSD data analysis?

That is my understanding. Once opt-in, your score is collected. Whether you can see it or not depends on getting the app to 4.1.0.

 

[EVNow]

Now I have to explain to my daughter why her learners permit driving sessions have been indefinitely suspended and she may have to wait on her license.

I was just thinking about how to break this news to my wife ...

As you correctly note - its not just one week. After that if the driving gets bad - they can remove the fsd beta.

 

[Daniel in SD]

That assumes that these scores accurately reflect the driving safety, which I don't think they do. Context matters, and that cannot be captured by vehicle sensors. I drive super carefully when other cars are around, but sometimes have "some fun" when the situation allows it (e.g. empty country road or similar). I haven't been in an accident for 25+ years.

They probably do but the correlation between their metrics and collision frequency is very small.
For example having a forced autopilot disengagement every single drive would only increase your predicted collision frequency by 32%.
If 50% of your braking is hard braking that only increases it by 13%.

FCW looks like it's by far the most correlated metric. A FCW every ten miles increases your probability of collision by 320%!

IMO they should have trained a neural net to predict collision frequency.

 

[Saabstory88]

OTOH, is it fair that people who actually drive safely pay extra in insurance because there are people who have some fun ? It is only fair that people who have "some fun" pay a little bit more for it.

ps : Wonder what everyone thinks about credit scores.

Having some insurance providers that provide telemetry based discounts, and others who don't is perfectly fair. You have a choice whether to put yourself in a monitored pool, with those risks and rewards, or not. You currently have the ability to turn your good driving into a financial benefit, or not. If you choose carry insurance without telemetry, you do pay more. I think this is a good way for things to be.

I begrudge no one who is excited about these features being added to the cars, and I'm sure there a lots of people who will find it fun to optimize their score. But if unlike every other software safety feature and telemetry currently on offer from Tesla, it can not be turned off or disabled, then this takes away from my own personal experience. I really liked the balance that Tesla struck in the past in terms of how these features are all opt in, and granular, but to me this system foretells a near future where that will no longer be the case.

Yeah, I'm upset about it, and will probably switch vehicles if it's actually compulsory, but am certainly not directing that at people who like and want to use these systems. These systems are a totally reasonable way to gate pre-release features, and it makes total sense for them to be using it for FSD Beta. I'm totally fine with the tradeoff of waiting until a polished version is released in exchange for not being scored. I just don't want to have it be compulsory, in the same way I don't want to own a car with a torque converter, just a preference.

 

[momo3605]

So what’s interesting is that hard acceleration is not counted and braking over 0.3Gs is. Does that mean you can gun it at stop lights and let regen (0.2g) slow you down without affecting your score?

 

[LRCasey]

Took my first drive of 22 miles and drove as calmly as possible...scored a 79. Took a hit for Aggressive turning - 2 circular highway on ramps and 2 off ramps. Dinged me for following too closely although always further back than most bay area drivers. Going to go back out late at night when no one else is around.

Usually Tesla is biased towards California but not this time.

 

[Tam]

So what’s interesting is that hard acceleration is not counted and braking over 0.3Gs is. Does that mean you can gun it at stop lights and let regen (0.2g) slow you down without affecting your score?

That's about right. No penalties for positive acceleration AND for all the speeding that you want.

Hard negative acceleration (fancy term for harsh braking) would penalize you.

 

[rush6410]

It looks like by using autopilot you will be rewarded with a better score. So, you just use autopilot for all drive when possible.

 

[Eno Deb]

Safety Rating will get better to take into account the context.

We are far away from AI having the I to understand context. Until then, these ratings are at best based on statistics. But statistics are just that, and don't say a lot about an individual. The only metric that should matter for an insurance company is how often you are involved in collisions.

 

[EVNow]

We are far away from AI having the I to understand context. Until then, these ratings are at best based on statistics. But statistics are just that, and don't say a lot about an individual. The only metric that should matter for an insurance company is how often you are involved in insurance incidents.

Nonsense. This is like what naysayers say about FSD - until its "perfect", noone should have it.

Do you say the same thing about credit ratings ? After decades they don't still take into account the context.