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yobigd20

Well-Known Member
Oct 28, 2012
5,929
531
Skaneateles, NY
Saleen Automotive Adds AC Propulsion to Design Team for New Saleen Electric Vehicle

Saleen Automotive, Inc. ... is pleased to announce that the Company has added legendary electric car developers, AC Propulsion, to its design team for the new Saleen Electric vehicle. AC Propulsion will provide the technology and implementation of the powertrain and battery for the project.

AC Propulsion specializes in alternating current-based drivetrain systems for electric vehicles. The company produces electric vehicle drive systems featuring high performance, high efficiency induction motors and integrated high power battery charging. The Company is well-known for providing its proprietary technology to the Tesla Roadster....

[read more] http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...or-new-saleen-electric-vehicle-245958871.html

so it looks like they are going to make some improvements outside of just wheels and stickers...I don't know much about AC Propulsion but if the above is true (they provided important tech for the Roadster), perhaps they are going to be able to make a supercar after all out of the Tesla. In addition to making power improvements, I wonder if they can add AWD too while they are at it :)
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
20,027
45,514
Central New York
Interesting. As far as I know ACP's products are inferior, (lower power to weight ratio, air cooled), to what Tesla is currently using.
 

qwk

P130DL
Dec 19, 2008
3,024
766
Interesting. As far as I know ACP's products are inferior, (lower power to weight ratio, air cooled), to what Tesla is currently using.
Funny you mention that, as 8 years ago they were the on cutting edge. They seem to have went downhill from there.
 
Mar 11, 2010
4,536
1,402
Humboldt/Los Altos
Interesting. As far as I know ACP's products are inferior, (lower power to weight ratio, air cooled), to what Tesla is currently using.

I think ACP has a liquid cooled Pem/motor assembly that you can buy now? but pricey

..maybe not, says liq cooled 'under development'
but they have do have a liq-cooled motor http://www.acpropulsion.com/datasheet/LCM-150.pdf
( I was looking into their stuff + other EV product and settled on an S instead:tongue:)
 
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rcc

Model S 85KW, VIN #2236
Aug 1, 2012
413
0
San Jose, CA
I would think Saleen could handle making suspension changes that are even more aggressive than the P+ and doing some new more aggressive looking body parts.

The cooling will be a challenge but I wonder if you could use the frunk space for a larger radiator and perhaps a separate compressor and heat-exchanger to really chill the coolant? That could be something A/C could help them with, I suspect.
 

efxjim

Member
Jan 18, 2011
231
29
Glendale, CA
The problem is getting heat out of the core (rotor) of the motor. One can fill the motor with oil or water to transfer the heat to the motor case (stater) but a lot of friction is created. A fluid passage can be drilled through the rotor and connected to rotating joints on the ends. This would be hard to seal long term at the 15k rotation speed. Large industrial motors use hydrogen at about 30 PSI to fill the space. Hydrogen is 7 to 10 times as effective as air is to transfer the heat away from the rotor. There are issues with containing the hydrogen however. Tesla + Hydrogen = don't want to go there. So providing additional cooling is not something that can just be slapped onto Tesla's motor.
 

Otmar

EV Modder
Jul 26, 2009
92
91
Corvallis, OR
I'll be watching what they do with interest.
I'm no expert on handling, so I'll leave that to other to speculate, I do know a bit about making EV's fast.
Tesla has optimized the car in many ways, if someone is willing to give up some of those optimizations then other benefits could be had.
Assuming that the cost, warranty, range, efficiency, some safety and upgradeability are compromised, I could see a track car that increases performance quite a bit.:wink:

Basic lightening comes first. Weight is such an important performance parameter. The front seats are low hanging fruit at 58 lbs (I only weighed the passenger seat so far) of course you lose the bolster air bags. I don't know about the 21's, but my 19" wheels weigh 58 lb each, I'm guessing racing wheels are much lighter. Maybe start with a high power Kokam lipo battery pack of half the weight (cuts range of course) and tie that to a 1000 HP inverter (I have not yet built one, but at some point someone will) and give it a test to see if the gears and driveshafts take the load. Motor cooling would be an issue. I wouldn't feel comfortable re-designing the motor, they've done such an amazing job of it. You could start by adding another motor in the front and then double up on the AC system and run it purely for motor cooling. It's still a lot of heat to be moved, but if the system was cold soaked and had some heat storing capacity the cooling may outlast the smaller battery capacity on the track. I could see some very hot laps at Laguna Seca. :smile:
 

rcc

Model S 85KW, VIN #2236
Aug 1, 2012
413
0
San Jose, CA
I suspect the winning solution for cooling isn't adding more - it's making the existing coolant colder so the same amount of coolant can draw more heat from the motor and PEM.

But that's just a guess.
 

WarpedOne

Supreme Premier
Aug 17, 2006
4,356
6,490
Slovenia, Europe
efxjim explained it but I guess it just doesn't get traction in people heads.
You can freeze the stator and the rotor will still melt.
It cools with heat radiation and through very thin (low density) air between it and stator.
Pumping hydrogen into that thin space is one 'solution' the other is a rotor with hollow vias for liquid cooling inside it.

It is easy to liquid cool the stator, it is a very tricky business to liquid cool the rotor. But sooner or later someone will do it.
 

WarpedOne

Supreme Premier
Aug 17, 2006
4,356
6,490
Slovenia, Europe
I haven't seen a definitive confirmation and I think they would loudly brag about it if they had it.
And also MS shouldn't/wouldn't ovearheat so fast if they had it.

I guess someone will need to cut open the rotor and find out.
 

JRP3

Hyperactive Member
Aug 20, 2007
20,027
45,514
Central New York
We don't know why the MS overheats, might be the battery pack, might be the inverter. Inverter components are probably more sensitive to heat than the motor components. Most motor and controller specs show the motor able to operate at significantly higher temps than the motor controller. Otmar could probably confirm. As to rotor cooling, Tesla does use a large, hollow shaft for the motor, which I've never seen on another motor, presumably to allow coolant to flow.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11950&d=1353964543
 

hileyms

Member
Aug 29, 2013
165
3
UK
Announcement yesterday that Saleen plans to show renderings of their version of Tesla S on April 12th.

Saleen Automotive to preview their Tesla Model S based EV on April 12th

According to Saleen Automotive CEO Steve Saleen, "Some of the mystery will soon be over. For those who have wondered what we can do to a car like the Tesla, our renderings will answer many of the questions in the media."
That's a little vague but Saleen has previously said "I fully intend to produce one of the most compelling Tesla's to ever hit the roadway."
 

RobotGrease

Member
Sep 5, 2012
251
2
United States
Here you go ladies and gentlemen, the official rending:

Photo

1907304_685940381462508_8761672195519341410_n.jpg
 

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