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Saleen Model S Video: Less weight, Gearing Change, Better Aero and Range

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by RobStark, Aug 17, 2014.

  1. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    #1 RobStark, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016


    Don't know about Saleen warranty nor what the gearing change will do to drive unit reliability.

    But there it is Tuner Teslas.
     
  2. ken830

    ken830 Model S (Res#P12,447)

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    Not that impressed. If they changed gearing to help acceleration, then they lowered top speed. Most of the other changes they talked about didn't really do anything for me either.
     
  3. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    Topped off at a $75K premium .... no thanks.
     
  4. Brightonuk

    Brightonuk Member

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    #4 Brightonuk, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
    Looks amazing nice touches on the body work if the gear ratio offers better acceleration top speed and distance I say great job but what about the limiter?
    We need more info on the High-Efficiency Drivetrain Cooling System does this offer longer sustain power? The limiter is the biggest issue with a sustained speed in the S if they did not fix that then this is all eye candy.
    Teslarati has a more comprehensive overview of the available upgrade but still does not answer the limiter question.
     
  5. JST

    JST Active Member

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    I couldn't make it through the video, but I agree with the views above--shorter gears mean lower top end, and since the P85 is already a rocket off the line I don't really see the point.

    I am sort of intrigued by the idea of a "more efficient" gearbox, though I wonder if Saleen is willing to offer an unlimited mile warranty on that part.
     
  6. HHHH

    HHHH Member

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    Man that was hard to watch and I only got through the first four minutes. So much rampant disregard for factual information.
     
  7. joer00

    joer00 Member

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    Have to see more but I think it looks hot. No more fish mouth. The interior is also much better than what others offered so far. A reduced gear ratio however I can't understand. I don't get the kw on the street without wheel spin with my p85.
    The really terrible thing however is their claim of NOISE the gearbox makes ! I don't care how great they think it might sound. Noise is something of the old ICE age!
     
  8. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    Top speed is not limited by the gear but by the computer. As that has been removed in Germany for the Autobahn. Tesla limited top speed because it really impacted range and your ability to get to the next Supercharger.

    What is the point of 130 mph in most countries outside of Germany anyway?

    The unknown critical information is how much acceleration has been improved below 80 mph and how much improvement at track like conditions at full power. Can you finish courses at full power that before would go into limp mode half power.

    I really like the deletion of the fuax grill, the nose cone is the right move for the general automotive market but not for me.

    And I like the functional opening in the hood to increase downforce.

    75 lbs reduction in weight by switching to ceramic breaks is nice. That should have a noticeable impact on the suspension.

    They will not make a claim on increased range without EPA certification but I hope someone can unofficially give us the scoop.

    Lastly, tuner cars are not about bang for the buck. It is paying a big premium for a bit extra performance and exclusivity.
     
  9. JST

    JST Active Member

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    I actually think the revised nose looks kind of goofy, kind of like the car is wearing a nose mask. Maybe I'd get used to it, but I don't really like the look.

    Even if the gearing change doesn't impact top speed because it's still above the limiter (assuming they don't touch the limiter), all else equal it should *reduce* efficiency at speed x, no, since the motor has to spin faster for a given speed?
     
  10. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    #10 RobStark, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
    I think a non-functional faux grill nose cone is goofy. But that is what most people expect particularly the Chinese luxury car buyer. So some kind of faux grill was the right move for Tesla, like the Cadillac ELR.

    Reducing the gear will decrease efficiency but lowering weight and improved aerodynamics will improve efficiency. I don't think the brakes were the only deletion of weight.

    I suspect the net result will be a few MPGe down for city driving but nothing outsized and still head and shoulders above the ICE competition.

    If initial reports are correct for highway driving the improved aerodynamics should increase efficiency and therefore range.
     
  11. hockeythug

    hockeythug Active Member

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    #11 hockeythug, Aug 17, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2014
    Who is the clown interviewer?

    "You aren't from Saleen? I thought with the accent you were from from Tesla?".

    "What about the indy cars that are electric?"

    Sounds like a $75k body kit and some new brakes. They should stick with ICE vehicles.
     
  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. I think the nose looks worse, more massive, less sleek. The other cosmetic changes do nothing for me. So the ceramic brakes save 75 lbs., big deal, I doubt that would be noticeable in street driving. On the track what matters is improving cooling and changing the software to remove current power limitations, but of course Saleen can't do that without Tesla allowing them access which apparently they did not get. So they went for some cosmetic stuff inside and out and brake and suspension changes. And the guy being interviewed couldn't even provide any details, in fact he seemed clueless about the car, about as ignorant as the interviewer. He didn't know what the EPA range is and he certainly didn't know what the Saleen "improved" range was: he couldn't provide facts to back up his claims.

    I went to this page but again no real useful info Saleen FOURSIXTEEN Tesla Model S Features Specifications List - TESLARATI.com

    I am underwhelmed.
     
  13. JST

    JST Active Member

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    That link does have some salient info, including the numbers on the lower (higher numerically) final drive and the apparent addition of a limited slip differential (which might be pretty nice, but doesn't really seem worth 75K).

    9.73:1 Final Gear Ratio
    11.39:1 Final Gear Ratio (optional)
    MAXGRIP Locking Differential (optional)

    Read more at Saleen FOURSIXTEEN Tesla Model S Features Specifications List - TESLARATI.com
     
  14. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    By "useful info" I mean real data on any efficiency gains, range improvement, CD improvement, acceleration time improvements, shorter stoping distance, cooling system improvements, track times compared to a stock P85+...REAL WORLD data instead of vague claims and marketing mumbo jumbo.

    Saleen is adding many tens of thousands of dollars to the price of the car without offering any proof that it's performance is improved. But gee look, bigger air intakes and more carbon fiber, gosh it must be better!
     
  15. MartinAustin

    MartinAustin Active Member

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    * the interviewer was indeed a clown.

    * the stock Model S already has the lowest drag coefficient of any production car... did they actually improve it? I doubt it... they probably made it worse... and since aerodynamics is the car's biggest advantage, perhaps it now has a lower top speed.

    * they "increased the gear ratio" - does this mean it is closer to 1:1 now? Or... further away? (e.g. 10.5:1) It's either quicker off the line and has a lower top speed, or has a higher top speed but is slower off the line.

    * ditto on the motor cooling, they probably have nothing, so it still has no use on a track and is a very odd Saleen car as a result.

    * the seats look better :)

    * the cost of the car is equivalent to one Tesla Model S plus a bunch of TSLA stock. I am not sure I would want to just buy a Saleen!
     
  16. trils0n

    trils0n 2013 P85

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    I don't like the hood. Too many lines. Doesn't fit with the rest of the car. Tesla's hood is great: simple, classy, strong looking. I could see how the nosecone might be more aerodynamic. It looks like almost the same shape as stock, but without the seams between the nosecone, chrome trim, and bumper. But the other aero changes (including the changed louvers on the front bumper) are probably negative in terms of Cd.
     
  17. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    yea that really puts it into perspective...talk about an overpriced body panel kit. even if they were to improve aerodynamics (I'd like to see proof in a air tunnel that they beat Tesla's drag coeffecients), is $75k for the possibility of a 0.01 decrease in drag coeffecient worth it? hell no. I doubt they're see many buyers, if any at all.
     
  18. James Anders

    James Anders Member

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    It's not just the gross weight reduction of 75 lbs. It the reduction of unsprung mass and rotational inertia. Lighter wheels, tires and brake rotor can make a big difference.
     
  19. JST

    JST Active Member

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    See above for the answer on the gear ratio. It's gone from just under 10 to just over 11. So, a shorter final drive and a lower top end.
     
  20. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    Agree with much of what has been said here, but these things will sell because they are "Saleen" and because they did it to a Tesla.
     

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