But they are not newly made, fresh off the line, if they have been in inventory. And the buyer knows exactly how many months ago the car was made as that's used to calculate the price.
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But they are not newly made, fresh off the line, if they have been in inventory. And the buyer knows exactly how many months ago the car was made as that's used to calculate the price.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
Nope. Cruise control stalk was one of the last things to be noticed. The sensors and the lane departure and speed assist were noticed first as being active on a car (on 9/22). It wasn't until a few days later that the picture of the cruise control stalk having the ACC knob was posted. I'd say by the afternoon of 9/24 it was clear that the sensors were legit and were being included on all newer cars. There was some confusion if the poster with the features was just showing pictures from a test car or something until that point.
AMPUP
Member
mknox
Well-Known Member
Question for the group: Is it the goal of TMC to drive away any posters who criticize Tesla in any way? Are we only allowed to post how great they are, and not mention the negatives? There's been a nasty trend peaking over the past week to highly criticize any opinion that goes against the party line.
The OP felt deceived by the salespeople. It's a matter of some debate as to whether that's true, and we can have that discussion. Without knowing whether the salespeople were aware of the new hardware, it's difficult to say. (For the record, when taking delivery on 9/23 I was told some of the new cars had hardware for new features already, although it's become clear that mine doesn't). The OP originally used the term "lied", which is what he felt happened. When repeatedly attacked, the post title was changed. We don't need to attack him multiple times over many posts to repeat what everyone else said. This is a waste of time and makes the thread much more difficult to read. Also, the non sequitors make this even harder. How much money he has made is meaningless. The fact that it's inventory is meaningless.
Whether or not the salespeople lied is meaningful. From my experience, I believe that they DID know about the new features, since other Tesla employees knew, and they simply wanted to sell this inventory car, so they answered his question in a way that was technically truthful, but practically dishonest. I think misinformed is much too weak a statement, since it is possible he was deliberately misinformed, or at least, knowingly misinformed.
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I stand corrected. That was the first one I heard about, so I must have read the threads out of order. Still, you can't expect all new buyers to check the forums every day for an update about new features surfacing. You can expect the salespeople to know about them though.
The OP felt deceived by the salespeople. It's a matter of some debate as to whether that's true, and we can have that discussion. Without knowing whether the salespeople were aware of the new hardware, it's difficult to say. (For the record, when taking delivery on 9/23 I was told some of the new cars had hardware for new features already, although it's become clear that mine doesn't). The OP originally used the term "lied", which is what he felt happened. When repeatedly attacked, the post title was changed. We don't need to attack him multiple times over many posts to repeat what everyone else said. This is a waste of time and makes the thread much more difficult to read. Also, the non sequitors make this even harder. How much money he has made is meaningless. The fact that it's inventory is meaningless.
Whether or not the salespeople lied is meaningful. From my experience, I believe that they DID know about the new features, since other Tesla employees knew, and they simply wanted to sell this inventory car, so they answered his question in a way that was technically truthful, but practically dishonest. I think misinformed is much too weak a statement, since it is possible he was deliberately misinformed, or at least, knowingly misinformed.
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I stand corrected. That was the first one I heard about, so I must have read the threads out of order. Still, you can't expect all new buyers to check the forums every day for an update about new features surfacing. You can expect the salespeople to know about them though.
Yes, I thought about that as I typed it, but figured further clarification would just complicate things. So yes, from a legal standpoint, the car is new. From a practical standpoint, it's not. In fact, since age factors into the price, the buyer of any inventory car should know exactly how old the car is.
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Yeah, what he said:smile:
Krugerrand
Meow
Okay, so from your experience just exactly how did the conversation go when the OP was purchasing his inventory car? What? You weren't there? Well then, it's safe to say you don't actually have an experience that would allow you to draw the correct conclusion about whether the staff in question lied or not. So glad we got that straight.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
So not quite how it went down. The OP titled the thread "My Salesperson Lied to Me", but then (if you read the very first post), followed up by stating (I've added the bolding):
The issue wasn't that the OP was stating they had lied, the issue (if you read a little more carefully) was that even the OP wasn't sure they lied, stated it was 'more than likely possible the salespeople were unaware', but had casually stated lying as a fact and then withdrew it in the original post BEFORE anyone challenged him on it.
Why is it that if anyone disagrees with a negative opinion they're immediately attacked as not allowing a negative opinion? Isn't it possible that there is something requiring correction?
So why are you commenting, if you weren't there either? Given his report, and my experiences, I was stating the conclusion I drew. Obviously I wasn't there. No reason to be mean about it.
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Bonnie, read this thread, and honestly tell me there weren't 10 people jumping up and down on the OP. There's a difference between a correction and repeated attacks. The "corrections" were not particularly polite either, and it seems like in this last week we've really lost the sense of civility on this forum. This thread and the "1st world problems" as well.
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This point is completely invalid. He would have done this, if he had known about the new features. He also could have ordered two months ago and it wouldn't have been an issue, or ordered 4 months ago and not gotten the features, or got an inventory car two months ago and then this is a moot point.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
You totally glossed over the fact that you were accusing folks of bullying him into retracting the comment about lying, when he himself did so in his original post BEFORE anyone else posted.
Is it possible that people would not have reacted so strongly IF he hadn't started out with 'They LIED' ... immediately followed by 'well, maybe not, but here's the deal'? Accusing others of lying when you admittedly don't know that, especially when it can impact them on the job is not cool. So yeah, people reacted to that.
So c'mon. Intellectual honesty and all that. Not everyone needs someone to stand up for them. (And for the record, I've handed out plenty of positive reputation in the past few days for both sides of the fence, IF people are stating their case fairly and without over the top emotion. I didn't hand it out for the first post in this thread or any subsequent posts.)
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
Yup, though I'd point out that people should keep in mind that people who feel like they got a bad deal tend to be emotional and mad. That doesn't always lead to the clearest of thinking. So while I agree that the topic needed fixing, I think people could have generally been a little more forgiving of the over the top title.
But the title has been fixed (no idea who did it), so I'm not sure why we're still discussing that bit.
But those features didn't actually exist in the ordering system. If he had ordered a new car and finalized his order that day locking him in and Tesla forced him to take delivery or refused to refund his deposit you might have a case.
We also have zero evidence the sales people 800 miles from HQ knew about the changes. It sounds like they were released by manufacturing 2 weeks early and they weren't supposed to. So he accepted an inventory car. He can always sell that same car. It's already taken the used car hit and he was allowed to take the tax credit. He can wait until 2015 and order a new one and claim a second tax credit. I don't see the problem.
You are again missing the point entirely. He was under the impression that he would receive the same inventory car as if he had ordered a production that day. That is not the case. He is upset by that, as many people are.
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I mean, he felt like he was lied to, or at least something close to lying.
Do you really think it will impact somebodies job? It seems to me like they very well could have lied. Either way, if you leave your customer with the impression that you might have lied, that seems problematic for a business.
The problem is that I can't see the positive reputation, and there's no way for me to filter out all the negatives. This thread is a microcosm of certain dynamics with this forum that are very frustrating, I'm sure to you as much as to me. If everyone repeats (piles on) the same point, then nobody actually reads the whole thread, and then we start arguing the same points over and over again.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
-sigh- So even though HE said it was over the top, you're not going to let it go. No point in discussing further, is there?
Edit: Oops, didn't remember the post from earlier in the thread, and suggested that dsm did not previously mention this, which he did. Sorry to DSM. See subsequent posts for my suitable chastisement.
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breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Are you trying to start problems? It WAS mentioned. Check post #49 (also reposted here, for your convenience, since you seem to be having problems reading posts in this thread).
I'm sure dsm363 will be glad to accept your gracious apology.
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Hah! breser beat me to it. (thx!) ... for the record, moderators on this forum leave 'bread crumbs' when we change or move things. But please, feel free to review the TOS.
That's my bad, apologies to dsm. I searched the thread for "fixed", and "changed", but not for "updated". In my defense, the most recent poster to mention it said they didn't know who did it. And then DSM did post that it was done, which made it sound like that was the first time it was said, which obviously it wasn't. Sorry DSM.
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Here is the question: Did the OP overstate the title? Sure. Is there a forum rule against doing so? I guess so. Does that mean he should be treated to comments like:
Dismissive.
Insulting. Everyone knows that.
Why would you even post that?
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Here is the question: Did the OP overstate the title? Sure. Is there a forum rule against doing so? I guess so. Does that mean he should be treated to comments like:
bighorn said:
Dismissive.
scaesare said:
Insulting. Everyone knows that.
acdrivemotor said:
Why would you even post that?
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