Same Rear Motor in S60 and P90D?

[EV Holiday]

Hi Tesla gurus,

I am researching a fact for an educational YouTube video about Tesla. Can you please tell me if the following statement is true or false?

"Currently (July16)Tesla only produce two type of Electric Motors in house. One big and one small. S60, S75 and P90D share the same rear big motors. S60D, S75D and S90D all have two identical small motors each installed in each car. P90D has the same small motor in front. The drive unit max power output is determined by battery pack max output, inverter max output and fuse max tolerance. There is no quality or build difference in the motor component. "

thanks for sharing your knowledge!

EVholiday

 

[SoccerMan94043]

Hi Tesla gurus,

I am researching a fact for an educational YouTube video about Tesla. Can you please tell me if the following statement is true or false?

"Currently (July16)Tesla only produce two type of Electric Motors in house. One big and one small. S60, S75 and P90D share the same rear big motors. S60D, S75D and S90D all have two identical small motors each installed in each car. P90D has the same small motor in front. The drive unit max power output is determined by battery pack max output, inverter max output and fuse max tolerance. There is no quality or build difference in the motor component. "

thanks for sharing your knowledge!

EVholiday

I believe that to be false. The website (Model S | Tesla) shows that the P90D has a "rear high performance motor" vs. a "rear motor" and if you compare the images, it shows some changes around the motor itself (though it looks the same size as the rear wheel drive).

Looks like the front motor is the same on the Ds.

I believe there is enhanced (faster) circuitry in the P90 as well.

 

[sorka]

The rear wheel only drive cars all have the same motor and they show at least size wise that they are the same rear motor that the Performance D cars use.

That doesn't mean they are but I suspect they are in fact the same motor. If they're not, even if they're the same physical size and form factor, the inverter and electronics could be different.

 

[MP3Mike]

WK057 has said that the motor and invertor are the same, but it is just loaded with different firmware. (He has said that he has flashed a non-P invertor with the P firmware and it then had the speed that the P version does.)

 

[FlatSix911]

I believe that to be false. The website (Model S | Tesla) shows that the P90D has a "rear high performance motor" vs. a "rear motor" and if you compare the images, it shows some changes around the motor itself (though it looks the same size as the rear wheel drive).

Looks like the front motor is the same on the Ds. I believe there is enhanced (faster) circuitry in the P90 as well.

Correct

 

[Evee]

the same rear motor.

 

[gsxdsm]

Same physical motor. Different software/firmware and battery limits.

 

[supratachophobia]

Same physical motor. Different software/firmware and battery limits.

This was partially confirmed by wk057 before the fleet of black Model X's showed up at his house and he disappeared. He successfully did a transplant of a 85kw battery into an S60, flashed P85 firmware and achieved what was, for all intents and purposes, a P85.

 

[EV Holiday]

Cool! This means whoever buys a S60 today can probably flash it to a P300 in 8 years time when the warranty expires. (Assuming there is a 300 kwh battery pack for the retrofitting in 2024.) Sounds like a hell of a drift machine....

 

[R.S]

Cool! This means whoever buys a S60 today can probably flash it to a P300 in 8 years time when the warranty expires. (Assuming there is a 300 kwh battery pack for the retrofitting in 2024.) Sounds like a hell of a drift machine....

Still, the motor has a maximum power level. So you can't just make it a 800hp car, without changing, or at least improving the motor. Same goes for the inverter.

It could be, that both could operate at a higher voltage and maybe you could also increase coolant flow, so the motor could be more performant, but you would need a lot more than just a more powerful battery, to make it a more powerful car, than the P85.

 

[3mp_kwh]

WK057 has said that the motor and invertor are the same, but it is just loaded with different firmware. (He has said that he has flashed a non-P invertor with the P firmware and it then had the speed that the P version does.)

Are we in the right context, here? The rear S85 and P85 had the same, larger motor. The AWD cars go small front / back, unless P85D, where the image on Tesla's site showed a larger rear motor retained. WK057 may have been talking about flashing the larger RWD S85 motor.

 

[MP3Mike]

Are we in the right context, here? The rear S85 and P85 had the same, larger motor. The AWD cars go small front / back, unless P85D, where the image on Tesla's site showed a larger rear motor retained. WK057 may have been talking about flashing the larger RWD S85 motor.

I think the OP was trying to determine if this quote was true: "S60, S75 and P90D share the same rear big motors". Which is true.

WK057 flashed a S60 to be a P85 after they replaced the 60 kWh battery pack with a 85 kWh pack.

 

[gothmog3]

The whole idea that the motor has to be larger to be more powerful seems intuitively right but really is derived from our experience with ICE cars, where more power needs more cylinder volume, extra superchargers, turbochargers, exhaust etc.

To make a Tesla more powerful, I suspect all you need is a bigger fuse (which is more than slightly mindboggling).

(well larger battery pack for higher input voltage, sure, and more beefed up inverter ... but you get the idea)

To R.S: what coolant flow? Thought the motor was air cooled ... ?

 

[MP3Mike]

To R.S: what coolant flow? Thought the motor was air cooled ... ?

Nope the motor/inventor is cooled using the same system that handles the battery cooling.

 

[supratachophobia]

Are we in the right context, here? The rear S85 and P85 had the same, larger motor. The AWD cars go small front / back, unless P85D, where the image on Tesla's site showed a larger rear motor retained. WK057 may have been talking about flashing the larger RWD S85 motor.

It was actually an S60, not an S85.

 

[supratachophobia]

Nope the motor/inventor is cooled using the same system that handles the battery cooling.

He specifically mentioned being aware of and not seeing any cooling issues after the swap.

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting reading ... ‘Tesla Hacker’ building a 1,000hp electric car using Tesla drivetrain and Chevy Volt batteries

Jason, aka wk057, is building a 1,000hp all-electric vehicle using a custom Tesla powertrain combined with 2 Chevy Volt battery packs.Here’s the setup Hughes hopes to deliver.

He got his hands on two Tesla performance drive units. Even Tesla’s top performance model, the Model S P90D Ludicrous, only has one of these units – in the back. The other motor is a smaller less powerful unit in the front.

Hughes will instead use two performance drive units, one in the front and one in the back. He should be able to get about 500 HP from each for short periods of times. He made a custom control board in order to control the 2 motors.

 

[R.S]

The whole idea that the motor has to be larger to be more powerful seems intuitively right but really is derived from our experience with ICE cars, where more power needs more cylinder volume, extra superchargers, turbochargers, exhaust etc.

To make a Tesla more powerful, I suspect all you need is a bigger fuse (which is more than slightly mindboggling).

(well larger battery pack for higher input voltage, sure, and more beefed up inverter ... but you get the idea)

To R.S: what coolant flow? Thought the motor was air cooled ... ?

It is liquid, (water/glycol) cooled, which helps to reach high power without hurting the rotor. With increasing the coolant flow, you could increase power by a bit, if you also increase voltage, you might get even higher. But there are limits.