San Diego Man's $58,000 Nightmare with a (Salvage Title) Tesla Model S

[JRP3]

People are building their own EVs from components: Lithium batteries, inverters, controllers, etc... They are not all PhD's or Electrical Engineers.

Correct. And we are doing so without the help of OEM's.

The issue is people should be able to work on THEIR car.

They can. Some of them will also be able to figure out how to enable software limited components as well. The same way people figured out how to get the Azure/Siemens system working and the UQM/Coda system working, both without OEM assistance.

But Tesla is blocking us and adding unnecessary steps. We can help as countless DIY have helped other manufacturers promote their products.

DIY types typically don't do much to a vehicle until it's been out for a while, and most of that is just using already developed after market products. I don't see much "promotion" happening from the DIY crowd for current models.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

Tesla "activates" battery pack--be that via a software update, replacing a fuse, etc. Battery pack has damage. A calamitous event ensues (fire, what have you). Tesla is sued for activating a pack of unknown condition. Tesla claims they are not liable because they simply activated the pack. Attorney points out that there are no service manuals or diagnostics available for adequate testing by third parties and Tesla should have exercised due care by inspecting the pack first.

A quite plausible line of reasoning.

I think the issue isn't that Tesla requires a waiver. That's reasonable, and along the same lines, like any cautious entity, Tesla can document the tests they run and when they activate a pack have effectively eliminated any liability thanks to due diligence.

The unreasonable part is that nothing even close to that is outlined in the waiver. Tesla can use any old reason to refuse to work on the car and blacklist you in terms of parts.

 

[JohnQ]

I think the issue isn't that Tesla requires a waiver. That's reasonable, and along the same lines, like any cautious entity, Tesla can document the tests they run and when they activate a pack have effectively eliminated any liability thanks to due diligence.

The unreasonable part is that nothing even close to that is outlined in the waiver. Tesla can use any old reason to refuse to work on the car and blacklist you in terms of parts.

Yes, I'm staying silent on other aspects of the agreement as I haven't reviewed.

 

[omarsultan]

I'm rather disappointed by the prevalent attitude that maintenance and repair of this vehicle is reserved for the Technical High Priests...I think their deification is somewhat misguided.

Not at all...I was just being practical. I have modded just about every vehicle I have owned. The reality is that tools, service manuals and documentation are not available and likely won't be for a while, so if high-hackabilty is important to you, then a Tesla is not the right car for you.

BTW, you analogy that electricity have been around a long time so its safe is a bit weak as electrocution is the 5th leading cause of workplace fatalities. A quick illustrative story: back in the day, my buddies would hack together fat 256KB Macs by soldering piggy-backed RAM chips on top of the original chips (yes you could do that). Problem is, folks did not know always know to discharge the CRT or know how to do it properly and a few did some interesting damage to themselves--thankfully nothing fatal, but the chance was there.

Fast forward to today and you are dealing with a heck of a lot more electricity and the media and lawyers are going to be all over any kind of mishap, so I think the caution on Tesla's part is warranted.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I'm rather disappointed by the prevalent attitude that maintenance and repair of this vehicle is reserved for the Technical High Priests , and beyond the ken of the common man. To me this seems to simply be another flavor of the FUD that is thrown against EVs in general.

The "common man" in America is an idiot, sorry to say. Most have barely a high school education and wouldn't know the difference between a kWh and a kW. Your "common man" is likely to get fried when he sticks his hands where they don't belong, or touches a high voltage lead that he didn't know was live because he missed a step 20 minutes ago.

I can't wait to see the news reports of all the "common" men spontaneously combusting from the current of a 400v lithium battery. You think I'm joking, but there are some seriously stupid people out there. I'm one of the only people I know who took calculus and physics in high school, and entered college with at least a basic understanding of the difference between power and current - something most of my peers didn't understand until their 1st year of college.

Tesla is just trying to save you from yourself.

 

[Kofi]

Not at all...I was just being practical. I have modded just about every vehicle I have owned. The reality is that tools, service manuals and documentation are not available and likely won't be for a while, so if high-hackabilty is important to you, then a Tesla is not the right car for you.

BTW, you analogy that electricity have been around a long time so its safe is a bit weak as electrocution is the 5th leading cause of workplace fatalities. A quick illustrative story: back in the day, my buddies would hack together fat 256KB Macs by soldering piggy-backed RAM chips on top of the original chips (yes you could do that). Problem is, folks did not know always know to discharge the CRT or know how to do it properly and a few did some interesting damage to themselves--thankfully nothing fatal, but the chance was there.

Fast forward to today and you are dealing with a heck of a lot more electricity and the media and lawyers are going to be all over any kind of mishap, so I think the caution on Tesla's part is warranted.

 

[Hometheatremaven]

To bring everyone up to date, the San Diego man who bought the salvage title Tesla S has sold it. Hopefully this puts an end to this thread.