Sandy Munro talks about the teardown of the Model 3

[VT_EE]

Yes, adhesive must hold or magnets will realign n-s n-s or at least shift in whatever slot holding mechanism exists in the rotor (that they were removed intact from, maybe glued but only needed to remove one lamination at a time was possible? ).
And yes, they are in the rotor.
From Cleantechnia article Tesla Model 3 Powertrain Fun. From Carburetors To Carborundum. You've Come A Long Way, Baby! | CleanTechnica

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Thanks for clarifying that! I was under the impression that the magnets were all in the stator based on the various early speculation in all the articles I was reading last spring. The photos in that article definitely show magnets in the rotor although it is unclear if there any in the stator too.

 

[VT_EE]

Are you qualified to worry about such violent events inside electric motors? I wonder why Musk didn't think of that? 'Cause everyone knows glue will fail.

I think you discovered the "fatal flaw" of the Model 3.

Putting the "rational" version of my thinking cap back on, it just occurred to me that it might not be a good idea to base your beliefs of such advanced technology on Munro's comments. One of the most common themes running through all his Model 3 videos is that there are a lot of things in the Model 3 that he just can't figure out why they designed things how they did. He probably said "I don't know why they did they did it like that" 100 times.

Of course he doesn't understand the Model 3, it's not made like other cars. The fact that it's engineered to be better than other cars goes right over his head (because "different" is a bad quality in his world view). The funniest thing is he raves about the handling/driving dynamics while simultaneously claiming they made the chassis too strong "it's overbuilt" and questioning the use of the more expensive composite suspension wishbones as if the engineers didn't know what they were doing.

It's actually hilarious that he can't see that his ignorance is the primary reason why he can't figure out why Tesla made the design the way it is. For example, he thinks the battery pack should be a stressed member of the chassis. He obviously doesn't understand that batteries can catch on fire in violent collisions. It is the equivalent of saying the gas tank (of an ICE vehicle) should be a stressed member of the chassis to save on cost/weight.

LOL! Who said I was worrying about ithe adhesive failing? I assume the adhesive experts at Tesla know their field better than I do. That doesn’t mean they are perfect though. I enjoy this forum because collectively this group seems to tease out pieces of the Tesla puzzle. Everybody here contributes and speculates. Eventually some facts surface and incorrect statements are corrected. Jumping down people’s throats and asking why someone thinks they are qualified to make statements is not helpful and contributes nothing. I simple statement like mongo’s is all that is needed.

 

[mongo]

Thanks for clarifying that! I was under the impression that the magnets were all in the stator based on the various early speculation in all the articles I was reading last spring. The photos in that article definitely show magnets in the rotor although it is unclear if there any in the stator too.

Happy to help. The Cleantechnia article published 2 months prior did hypothesize that the magnets were going to be in the stator.

 

[mongo]

Anyone know if the bearing problem has been resolved?
It's a shame $80 worth of bearings can bring you to the replacement of the entire unit. I imagine home mechanics of the future will split the case and source their own bearings. I have never seen a proprietary bearing so buying bearings should not be a problem.

Yes, Tesla resolved the bearing issues on the AC induction motor used in the S/X and front of the 3. My understanding is that going to ceramic bearings solved the issue of arcing due to induced currents in the rotor (but that is all > first hand).
The latest revs of drive units have not had the milling noise issue, and previous units would theoretically have failed and been replaced under warranty.

 

[DBeckwith]

I think you got it backwards. He said that the structure is too strong and not too weak so the collision tests should be excellent.

I think we are in agreement. Monro basically says the body is bad for multiple reasons, over designed, too complex, too heavy, too difficult to manufacture, uses wrong materials, poor fit and finish. He never discusses if Tesla's unique approach may address safety. Does it increase strength here to avoid intrusion or crumple there to absorb impact for example. As far as I recall he doesn't say it is a good, bad or excellent safety design.

He criticizes that the battery is not used for structural support but more as performance and efficiency consideration, not safety.

Maybe he thoroughly considers safety when he concludes Model 3 has poor body design, but he doesn't elaborate about it in the videos.

 

[StealthP3D]

Anyone know if the bearing problem has been resolved?
It's a shame $80 worth of bearings can bring you to the replacement of the entire unit. I imagine home mechanics of the future will split the case and source their own bearings. I have never seen a proprietary bearing so buying bearings should not be a problem.

What bearing problem are you talking about? This is a thread about the Model 3 which is not known to have any bearing problems.

 

[Roentgen]

I think we are in agreement. Monro basically says the body is bad for multiple reasons, over designed, too complex, too heavy, too difficult to manufacture, uses wrong materials, poor fit and finish. He never discusses if Tesla's unique approach may address safety. Does it increase strength here to avoid intrusion or crumple there to absorb impact for example. As far as I recall he doesn't say it is a good, bad or excellent safety design.

He criticizes that the battery is not used for structural support but more as performance and efficiency consideration, not safety.

Maybe he thoroughly considers safety when he concludes Model 3 has poor body design, but he doesn't elaborate about it in the videos.

This.

We don't know to what specs the Telsa Engineers designed the Model 3 frame, and we don't know to what criteria Munro is judging the supposed over-engineering. All speculation as to who is more right or more wrong without knowing these things, is just that - speculation.

I for one am comforted by the fact that the 3 would be just as safe with or without the battery pack - that the battery pack is safely pocketed away in a super-fortified compartment. Less worry and news coverage of catastrophic runaway battery fires.

But if there were a way to make the frame more efficient without sacrificing safety (which usually means less materials=less weight), I'm all for it! Less frame weight = at the very least better handling and performance; increased battery capacity for the same weight car (which is incr range); or both!

 

[StealthP3D]

You are referring all that stuff so I would like to hear/read that too. Could you provide a link to it?

Munro's videos are not hard to find but they are long and an incredible waste of valuable time. You can browse through them if you think it's worthwhile but I'm not going to spend any time indexing them.

It's painfully obvious Munro is like a dinosaur in Antartica when it comes to a clean sheet design as advanced as the Model 3. The funny thing is, he admits multiple times he is out of his league dissecting the Model 3 without an explanation of how everything works but he phrases it in such a way that could lead some people to think it is TESLA that doesn't know what they are doing. He says "I have no idea why they designed (certain things) they way they did". Then he shakes his head with a blank look on his face like it's shameful but the only shameful thing is that he doesn't understand a lot about the Model 3. When he called Tesla to get more information they basically blew him off. If it's not done the same way on other cars, he has no clue.

He would think gas tanks should be stressed stuctural members to save time, money and weight except for the fact that no auto manufacturers use gas tanks that are stressed structural members. But, if they did, he would swear it's the only way to go. He's basically an idot who knows a lot about how cars have traditionally been built. And an idiot with a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

 

[Roentgen]

Munro's videos are not hard to find but they are long and an incredible waste of valuable time. You can browse through them if you think it's worthwhile but I'm not going to spend any time indexing them.

It's painfully obvious Munro is like a dinosaur in Antartica when it comes to a clean sheet design as advanced as the Model 3. The funny thing is, he admits multiple times he is out of his league dissecting the Model 3 without an explanation of how everything works but he phrases it in such a way that could lead some people to think it is TESLA that doesn't know what they are doing. He says "I have no idea why they designed (certain things) they way they did". Then he shakes his head with a blank look on his face like it's shameful but the only shameful thing is that he doesn't understand a lot about the Model 3. When he called Tesla to get more information they basically blew him off. If it's not done the same way on other cars, he has no clue.

He would think gas tanks should be stressed stuctural members to save time, money and weight except for the fact that no auto manufacturers use gas tanks that are stressed structural members. But, if they did, he would swear it's the only way to go. He's basically an idot who knows a lot about how cars have traditionally been built. And an idiot with a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.

Of course Tesla wouldn't tell him anything. He tears apart cars and sells the analysis to other companies. If Tesla had hired him to do an analysis, we'd never know what he thought about them cuz NDA.

I wouldn't call him an idiot though. I get the impression he knows quite a bit. But like you said, about traditional vehicle design. And although he may be mired in the old auto manufacturer mind-set, he was open minded enough to be publicly amazed at some of the brilliant engineering feats of the 3, and how some of that (like the superbottle) could not be accomplished by Detroit.

 

[StealthP3D]

Of course Tesla wouldn't tell him anything. He tears apart cars and sells the analysis to other companies. If Tesla had hired him to do an analysis, we'd never know what he thought about them cuz NDA.

I wouldn't call him an idiot though. I get the impression he knows quite a bit. But like you said, about traditional vehicle design. And although he may be mired in the old auto manufacturer mind-set, he was open minded enough to be publicly amazed at some of the brilliant engineering feats of the 3, and how some of that (like the superbottle) could not be accomplished by Detroit.

I call him an idiot because he is closed-minded and senile. Notice I didn't say he's purposefully trying to misrepresent the design of the Model 3, he just doesn't understand much of it. That doesn't give him warm fuzzies, he likes to see familiar things because it makes him feel like he knows what he's looking at. He's also starting to lose his mind. His uses the wrong words or can't remember the word he wants. He refers to "A" when he means "B", and has numerous long pauses in his dialogue. I doubt he will be on public videos in 2 years if his senility continues to progress.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Boy if there weren't so many heavy rivets...he could have blown that Mustang GT away even more. Darn.

 

[ricohman]

What bearing problem are you talking about? This is a thread about the Model 3 which is not known to have any bearing problems.

Tesla AC induction motors have failed due to the bearings. The Model 3 has an AC induction motor up front. I am buying the dual motor version so this concerns me.
If it has been resolved with ceramic bearing that is a good thing.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Tesla AC induction motors have failed due to the bearings. The Model 3 has an AC induction motor up front. I am buying the dual motor version so this concerns me.
If it has been resolved with ceramic bearing that is a good thing.

Mine hasn't failed.

You can come look at it if you like.

Mine works just like the one in the video that I posted above yours. Is that video a representation of the failure?

 

[ricohman]

Of course Tesla wouldn't tell him anything. He tears apart cars and sells the analysis to other companies. If Tesla had hired him to do an analysis, we'd never know what he thought about them cuz NDA.

I wouldn't call him an idiot though. I get the impression he knows quite a bit. But like you said, about traditional vehicle design. And although he may be mired in the old auto manufacturer mind-set, he was open minded enough to be publicly amazed at some of the brilliant engineering feats of the 3, and how some of that (like the superbottle) could not be accomplished by Detroit.

An idiot he is not. That company involves a lot more people than the older man you see speaking on youtube. I first read about him and his company in Airpower many years ago. When I saw his video recently I had no idea that company had anything to do with cars. I thought they were an aerospace company.

 

[ricohman]

Mine hasn't failed.

You can come look at it if you like.

Mine works just like the one in the video that I posted above yours. Is that video a representation of the failure?

That's great.
I don't buy vehicles without research though. Just type Tesla motor bearing failures into your browser. Only a thousand threads or so to read.
I do not want to have a vehicle that needs a motor every 60,000km. Some S and X models have needed 4 or 5 in 200,000.
Glad to see it's sorted now. Sharing information is a good thing.

 

[Garlan Garner]

That's great.
I don't buy vehicles without research though. Just type Tesla motor bearing failures into your browser. Only a thousand threads or so to read.
I do not want to have a vehicle that needs a motor every 60,000km. Some S and X models have needed 4 or 5 in 200,000.
Glad to see it's sorted now. Sharing information is a good thing.

Oh wait....are you referring to Model S and X bearings?

 

[Roentgen]

Boy if there weren't so many heavy rivets...he could have blown that Mustang GT away even more. Darn.

You know, that's probably true. Less weight, faster acceleration and/or higher speed for the same size motors. Or, equal weight with a larger battery, also faster acceleration (from more power, unless software limited). No one's arguing that the Model 3 is a great car. What we're wondering is if it could be even better!

I call him an idiot because he is closed-minded and senile. Notice I didn't say he's purposefully trying to misrepresent the design of the Model 3, he just doesn't understand much of it. That doesn't give him warm fuzzies, he likes to see familiar things because it makes him feel like he knows what he's looking at. He's also starting to lose his mind. His uses the wrong words or can't remember the word he wants. He refers to "A" when he means "B", and has numerous long pauses in his dialogue. I doubt he will be on public videos in 2 years if his senility continues to progress.

I can't stand how he kept saying "at the end of the day" in the video. Seriously, like every other sentence. To me, he didn't seem particularly close minded. Old and crotchety perhaps... I've only seen the most recent video. But his appreciation of the tech in the Model 3, and that he can admit he has to hire new people to eval stuff he's not familiar with seems to me as rather more open than closed (if slow to do so). A good number of people on the interwebz seem to feel he's quite the authority (even on here!).

 

[Garlan Garner]

You know, that's probably true. Less weight, faster acceleration and/or higher speed for the same size motors. Or, equal weight with a larger battery, also faster acceleration (from more power, unless software limited). No one's arguing that the Model 3 is a great car. What we're wondering is if it could be even better!



I can't stand how he kept saying "at the end of the day" in the video. Seriously, like every other sentence. To me, he didn't seem particularly close minded. Old and crotchety perhaps... I've only seen the most recent video. But his appreciation of the tech in the Model 3, and that he can admit he has to hire new people to eval stuff he's not familiar with seems to me as rather more open than closed (if slow to do so). A good number of people on the interwebz seem to feel he's quite the authority (even on here!).

Actually it was stated that if the Model 3 was lighter in weight.....The tires would have less traction.

Traction control would software limit the slip thereby making the car slower. <---- That's a statement my Tesla.

I'm actually loosing quickness "right now" because I don't have the 10" tires on the rear ( which are heavier ). I put the 10 inch tires on my car this summer in Joliet and my 0-60 times were .3 seconds faster because there was no slip at all.

So....that's why I kept/keep saying that a lighter car is not always necessarily quicker.

What matters most is "where the weight is" and what its function is.

The dragster spoiler weighs about 200 pounds however the dragster would be well over a second slower in a quarter mile race.

 

[StealthP3D]

A good number of people on the interwebz seem to feel he's quite the authority (even on here!).

LOL! Yes, I used to believe in the tooth fairy. Until I didn't anymore. A lot of people, especially in Russia, think Vladimir Putin is God's gift to humanity. There is this thing called ignorance. It's pretty common.

Here's another example of why Munro is not that bright. He raves about the Model 3's handling, says it drives like it's on rails.

Then he's critical of structural welds that make the chassis less flexible and more stiff than the competition. Yes, it also adds cost and weight. Well, what did he expect? That Tesla could build the chassis like the other manufacturers do and still have the superior handling and driving dynamics?

It's completely idiotic. Why anyone would hold him up as an authority on something that's out of his area of expertise is a real mystery to anyone with a rational mind.

 

[Garlan Garner]

LOL! Yes, I used to believe in the tooth fairy. Until I didn't anymore. A lot of people, especially in Russia, think Vladimir Putin is God's gift to humanity. There is this thing called ignorance. It's pretty common.

Here's another example of why Munro is not that bright. He raves about the Model 3's handling, says it drives like it's on rails.

Then he's critical of structural welds that make the chassis less flexible and more stiff than the competition. Yes, it also adds cost and weight. Well, what did he expect? That Tesla could build the chassis like the other manufacturers do and still have the superior handling and driving dynamics?

It's completely idiotic. Why anyone would hold him up as an authority on something that's out of his area of expertise is a real mystery to anyone with a rational mind.

What? are you kidding me!!!!!

YOU CAN"T BE SERIOUS!!!!


The tooth fairy isn't real?

Shame on you @StealthP3D for breaking it to us like this.