Sandy Munro talks about the teardown of the Model 3

[Vines]

Another guy at his computer trying to be smart!

"if you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with bullshit" W. C Fields
I actually took screen shot of your post a sent it to a buddy. We raced a Talon for years in the 90's. He said he nearly spit up his coffee.
Guess why we had to get aggressive with the camber up front? Take a wild guess.
Hahahahaha! wow!
I like this forum!

This here is an opportunity to learn, attitudes like this make people take you less seriously.

However your caustic attitude and tendency to provide sarcastic info-less replies has removed your ability to transfer your potential wisdom to the intended audience. I'll just use the ignore button and clean up my screen a bit so I can get to the real good information.

I do think the Tesla was built with a different mindset, and that is what gets Sandy. He cant understand why they wouldn't build it cheaper. Cheaper simply wasn't the point. The best was, if that leads to slightly lower profits then so be it, make it up in volume.

 

[TT97]

You didn't listen to me....so never mind.

Which part did I miss?

BTW....aren't you going to turn in your Model 3 for something better since Sandy has laid down the law about its deficiencies?

Every product you buy will have deficiencies, when I decided to purchase the M3, I evaluated its advantages and deficiencies vs the advantages and deficiencies of other vehicles. Just because I decided to buy the 3, it doesn't make the car perfect all of a sudden.

 

[mongo]

I actually took screen shot of your post a sent it to a buddy. We raced a Talon for years in the 90's. He said he nearly spit up his coffee.
Guess why we had to get aggressive with the camber up front? Take a wild guess.

If you were messing with camber, you were likely working on the cornering performance which is exactly what I called as being impacted by weight distribution. Or you lowered the car which messes it up.

However, a Talon AWD or drive or not, has little to no bearing on the power distribution abilities of a dual motor EV.

 

[StealthP3D]

I do think the Tesla was built with a different mindset, and that is what gets Sandy. He cant understand why they wouldn't build it cheaper. Cheaper simply wasn't the point. The best was, if that leads to slightly lower profits then so be it, make it up in volume.

That's a nice summary of Munro's contribution to our understanding of the Model 3. And it also explains why the Model 3 is selling very well, breaking records actually, despite its high average sale price. And, remember, Munro initially started writing about his teardown of the Model 3 back in February when Tesla was having a slower than anticipated production ramp and total demand for the Model 3 was still an unknown. Munro didn't change his tune much until it became apparent Tesla would be able to manufacture them in good quantity and that demand was strong, even at a high price point.

Had he not changed his tune, he would have lost even more credibility than he did. And in his business, credibility is one of your most valuable assets. So it's not surprising how he walked back his initial take on the Model 3.

 

[ricohman]

Its getting really insulting and immoral in this forum. You like that?

If you were messing with camber, you were likely working on the cornering performance which is exactly what I called as being impacted by weight distribution. Or you lowered the car which messes it up.

However, a Talon AWD or drive or not, has little to no bearing on the power distribution abilities of a dual motor EV.

Nope.
But I am going to be polite.
We added negative camber to keep the tires on contact as during launch the front unloads. Weight transfer you see.
As the front lifts the negative camber allows the tires to stay on contact. As this weight transfer occurs during launch the front wheels want to go positive and end up biting on the outside of the tires. Having negative to begin with reduces this and you end up with more tire on the ground which is a good thing. This is important in an AWD race car. Not for a daily driver.
This applies directly to any awd vehicle on any drag strip. The talon I raced had very good weight distribution however it was a full cage race car so we could move weight as we saw fit. The model 3 has excellent weight distribution however it will still launch the same way as any other car as far as that is concerned. Having weight directly over the front wheels is good for traction but as you can see with the car I used as an example even a forward weight bias has its limitations during launch.

 

[apsen]

Sandy has complaints about the Model 3. Aren't you going to turn yours in for something better?

Can't help you with your comprehension problems

 

[voip-ninja]

Munro has a well-deserved reputation as an expert in cost-cutting. That's his specialty. And it's why I have a dim view of him. He thinks everything revolves around the lowest possible price. I've seen too many good products ruined by those insisting it could be made cheaper while retaining the same functionality. Because while the car will still get you from A to B, often times the cost-cutting does affect the reliability, safety or the intangible qualities of the vehicle. Certainly, judicious cost-cutting is important for an entry-level car but I'm not interested in buying an entry level car.

What is your source for Munro being an expert in cost-cutting? Does his current business revolve around telling manufacturers how to cut costs? It seems to me that his current business is providing critical industry info to companies about ways products are built, technology being used and improvements that can be made. Cost cutting is likely a small part of that.

If you'd actually listened to any of the interviews you'd discover that he has actually said the exact opposite about every single thing about the Model 3 other than the unibody and what he can glean about the assembly process

• He has gushed about the vehicles electronics which are not cheap.
• He has specifically commented that one of the biggest problems in Detroit is that bean counters are ruining innovation through relentless cost cutting. He hailed Tesla as being "navy seal engineers" for coming up with their super bottle cooling solution, even though it's likely more expensive than traditional cooling solutions.
• He has gushed about the cars acceleration which is not cheap.
• He has gushed about the battery technology which is not cheap.
• He has criticized the unibody as being unnecessarily expensive and wasteful.

I actually doubt you've watched any of these interviews because your comments are so misinformed.

You continue to argue that the Model 3 unibody and construction being overbuilt is a good thing, when everything Tesla is trying to accomplish, being profitable chief amongst them requires that Tesla reduce cost wherever possible.

Can you prove that making the unibody changes that Munro continually brings up would make the car less safe? I rather doubt you can. You and others are being overly reactive because someone who is acknowledged as an industry expert has some valid criticisms of where Tesla could have done better.

I find it's better in life not to become emotionally invested in any company or it's products as you so clearly have.

 

[mongo]

Nope.
But I am going to be polite.
We added negative camber to keep the tires on contact as during launch the front unloads. Weight transfer you see.
As the front lifts the negative camber allows the tires to stay on contact. As this weight transfer occurs during launch the front wheels want to go positive and end up biting on the outside of the tires. Having negative to begin with reduces this and you end up with more tire in the ground which is a good thing. This is important in an AWD race car. Not for a daily driver.
This applies directly to any awd vehicle on any drag strip. The talon I raced had very good weight distribution however it was a full cage race car so we could move weight as we saw fit. The model 3 has excellent weight distribution however it will still launch the same way as any other car as far as that is concerned. Having weight directly over the front wheels is good for traction but as you can see with the car I used as an example even a forward weight bias has its limitations during launch.

Interesting, thanks for the details.

 

[StealthP3D]

• He has gushed about the vehicles electronics which are not cheap.
• He has specifically commented that one of the biggest problems in Detroit is that bean counters are ruining innovation through relentless cost cutting.
• He has gushed about the cars acceleration which is not cheap.
• He has gushed about the battery technology which is not cheap.

Like I said, Munro changed his tune as it became apparent how much demand there was for the car and that Tesla's productiion ramp was starting to churn them out in volume. He's like the kid who always wants to be on the winning team.

I find it's better in life not to become emotionally invested in any company or it's products.

Well then, what's your excuse?

 

[StealthP3D]

What is your source for Munro being an expert in cost-cutting? Does his current business revolve around telling manufacturers how to cut costs?

Actually, yes. My source is the Munro Website, "Home of Lean Design". He says:

"Lean Design® is Munro & Associates core methodology, developed and refined over the last 25 years, which has saved companies 14+ billions of dollars over all manufacturing sectors, including defense, aerospace, automotive, medical, M.T.D.M., toys, marine and more."

Any questions?

 

[apsen]

That's a nice summary of Munro's contribution to our understanding of the Model 3. And it also explains why the Model 3 is selling very well, breaking records actually, despite its high average sale price. And, remember, Munro initially started writing about his teardown of the Model 3 back in February when Tesla was having a slower than anticipated production ramp and total demand for the Model 3 was still an unknown. Munro didn't change his tune much until it became apparent Tesla would be able to manufacture them in good quantity and that demand was strong, even at a high price point.

Had he not changed his tune, he would have lost even more credibility than he did. And in his business, credibility is one of your most valuable assets. So it's not surprising how he walked back his initial take on the Model 3.

You are misrepresenting the facts.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Can't help you with your comprehension problems

You didn't answer my question - you never do. lol.

When are you going to trade in your Model 3? Sandy said that there is something wrong with it.

 

[voip-ninja]

Like I said, Munro changed his tune as it became apparent how much demand there was for the car and that Tesla's productiion ramp was starting to churn them out in volume. He's like the kid who always wants to be on the winning team.



Well then, what's your excuse?

Defending against FUD is a hobby of mine, it's not tied to any specific company or product.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Nope.
But I am going to be polite.
We added negative camber to keep the tires on contact as during launch the front unloads. Weight transfer you see.
As the front lifts the negative camber allows the tires to stay on contact. As this weight transfer occurs during launch the front wheels want to go positive and end up biting on the outside of the tires. Having negative to begin with reduces this and you end up with more tire in the ground which is a good thing. This is important in an AWD race car. Not for a daily driver.
This applies directly to any awd vehicle on any drag strip. The talon I raced had very good weight distribution however it was a full cage race car so we could move weight as we saw fit. The model 3 has excellent weight distribution however it will still launch the same way as any other car as far as that is concerned. Having weight directly over the front wheels is good for traction but as you can see with the car I used as an example even a forward weight bias has its limitations during launch.

Indeed... thanks for your kind response. <-----I'm serious.

 

[apsen]

Like I said, Munro changed his tune as it became apparent how much demand there was for the car and that Tesla's productiion ramp was starting to churn them out in volume. He's like the kid who always wants to be on the winning team.

Not true.

 

[voip-ninja]

Actually, yes. My source is the Munro Website, "Home of Lean Design". He says:

"Lean Design® is Munro & Associates core methodology, developed and refined over the last 25 years, which has saved companies 14+ billions of dollars over all manufacturing sectors, including defense, aerospace, automotive, medical, M.T.D.M., toys, marine and more."

Any questions?

Good find, but you should include the full mission statement;

Evolving How You Manufacture
Since 1988, Munro & Associates has consistently saved companies billions of dollars spanning the gamut of manufacturing industries from aerospace, defense, automotive, marine, medical, heavy industries, MTDM, consumer electronics and more. Munro & Associates has a proven track record of helping companies reduce “time to market”, R&D, engineering and manufacturing costs all while increasing the quality of our customers products, processes and systems. This has resulted in our customers realizing not only higher profit margins, but also significantly increasing market share or, in some cases, achieving market dominance.

Sandy's latest comments about the Model 3 specifically bemoan the approach that "bean counters" take to trying to maximize profitability of products. So I guess he's on the record as being at odds with his company mission statement.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Not true.

Sandy didn't change his tune?

 

[apsen]

You didn't answer my question - you never do. lol.

When are you going to trade in your Model 3? Sandy said that there is something wrong with it.

There's already an answer to that question elsewhere in this thread. You just need to read it and understand it. I can't make you do any of those.

 

[Garlan Garner]

There's already an answer to that question elsewhere in this thread. You just need to read it and understand it. I can't make you do any of those.

LOL.

You never answered the question of you getting rid of your Model 3 or not.

It doesn't matter.....lol...- no worries.

 

[apsen]

Sandy didn't change his tune?

Correct.