JeffK
Well-Known Member
I always liked this one from 2016
weight: 170 kg
about 6.5 kWh battery.
weight: 170 kg
about 6.5 kWh battery.
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Sandy Munro talks about the teardown of the Model 3
- Thread starter Grendal
- Start date
Garlan Garner
Banned
I love that.
I wonder what the range is on that car.... and how well the autopilot works. LOL
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It has "full self driving" in that you fully have to drive it yourself. haha.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Getting back to the topic of the Autoline show, I think I've watched all of these Tesla-centric Autoline episodes thanks to members here posting about them. It's been an interesting trip hearing the comments and viewpoints change over the course of time. Initially I was annoyed that Sandy Munro was so critical of the first car they bought, a really early release, and seemingly unable to get over the panel gaps. With the exception of their guest from last episode who owned a Model 3, I found none of the Autoline panel guys seemed terribly knowledgeable about the car except maybe from what they had read, most didn't seem like they had even seen one let alone ridden in one, yet they kept making their little childish jabs about the gaps. One guest in particular I thought was an empty seat as far as his knowledge base. I saw Model 3s come out after that early production run and had friends get theirs before my AWD arrived and I didn't see a consistent gap occurrence among the cars I saw. Therefore I simply thought it was unfair that they didn't look at more cars for their overall body evaluation.
It was clear to me from early in his initial review that Sandy hadn't driven the car until much later and then he started to understand the car better. Listening to him I still however don't think he "gets" everything about the car and design. He clearly has warmed up to the car however. I thought this 2019 episode, which I was surprised was nearly all Tesla, was the most interesting. The comment about his report(?) being only bought by the Japanese mfgrs had me thinking that they are so far behind in doing anything like what Tesla has done maybe they really needed to catch up. Then there was the comment about an Italian mfgr buying the motor report focusing on the magnets? Sandy also acknowledged in a round about way that Rivian was a client of Munro and Associates. I did find the comments from David Welch (Bloomberg) and his perspective on Elon, Tesla and its future interesting, as well as those from Sandy's perspective. Sandy realizes that for his company to do what they do, with the advent of the Model 3 and how it has drastically changed the automotive field (which he really seems to get), he really needs to hire staff that understands all the new tech. That was kind of obvious from his comment last time about the military grade hardware capabilities of the car's computer system. So he's having trouble finding talent and I'm sure Detroit is too. Got some honest feedback from the guys on what they thought of the BMW i3 and the Chevy Bolt LOL.
While the comparison of Elon & Tesla to Steve Jobs & Apple was made a few times, what they didn't really comment on was that Tesla is building an eco-system of not only cars/suvs but trucks, semi's, and energy products like the Tesla Superchargers, powerwalls, roof tiles and large commercial powerpack systems -- not unlike how Apple's products and services have grown beyond the Mac and iPhone, and those comprise a larger portion of their bottom line as time has gone on. I get this is a car program and not all products relevant to them, but it will play into Tesla's future and longevity. Maybe Autoline will feature the new Roadster, pickup truck and semi when they come out.
It was clear to me from early in his initial review that Sandy hadn't driven the car until much later and then he started to understand the car better. Listening to him I still however don't think he "gets" everything about the car and design. He clearly has warmed up to the car however. I thought this 2019 episode, which I was surprised was nearly all Tesla, was the most interesting. The comment about his report(?) being only bought by the Japanese mfgrs had me thinking that they are so far behind in doing anything like what Tesla has done maybe they really needed to catch up. Then there was the comment about an Italian mfgr buying the motor report focusing on the magnets? Sandy also acknowledged in a round about way that Rivian was a client of Munro and Associates. I did find the comments from David Welch (Bloomberg) and his perspective on Elon, Tesla and its future interesting, as well as those from Sandy's perspective. Sandy realizes that for his company to do what they do, with the advent of the Model 3 and how it has drastically changed the automotive field (which he really seems to get), he really needs to hire staff that understands all the new tech. That was kind of obvious from his comment last time about the military grade hardware capabilities of the car's computer system. So he's having trouble finding talent and I'm sure Detroit is too. Got some honest feedback from the guys on what they thought of the BMW i3 and the Chevy Bolt LOL.
While the comparison of Elon & Tesla to Steve Jobs & Apple was made a few times, what they didn't really comment on was that Tesla is building an eco-system of not only cars/suvs but trucks, semi's, and energy products like the Tesla Superchargers, powerwalls, roof tiles and large commercial powerpack systems -- not unlike how Apple's products and services have grown beyond the Mac and iPhone, and those comprise a larger portion of their bottom line as time has gone on. I get this is a car program and not all products relevant to them, but it will play into Tesla's future and longevity. Maybe Autoline will feature the new Roadster, pickup truck and semi when they come out.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
I hope Honda, Toyota, and/or Nissan use this report to actually make safe, compelling, high performance EVs.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
That is article is <ice emoji>. Fluffy nothing that in no way gets to why weight matters. Empty dogma. :/
Weight certainly matters, but it is in no way everything. Further, where the weight is is a huge qualifier on it. The extreme example of that is sprung vs unsprung weight. That's a big reason why the Model 3 doesn't move like a regular 2-ton vehicle. EVs shedding pounds is a good trend, and that is happening, but static mass makes for a poor comparison here.
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Sean Wagner
Member
As Sandy Munro learns how and why to appreciate the new automotive world that Tesla represents more, so I better appreciate the exhaustive knowledge he brings to the discussions. Indeed, I wish he'd get to talk a little longer sometimes.
Absolutely one to watch for anyone reading this - there's a trove of well founded information to be gleaned from it.
The part about the ingenious "superbottle" perfectly demonstrates this - ie., how much the working culture differs from established rivals and leads to obvious but unprecedented design decisions.
For more on the superbottle, see:
The Tesla Model 3 'Superbottle' Easter Egg Is a Fascinating Packaging Solution | David Tracy 12/18/18
... "It sure impressed me, and I used to design cooling systems." ...
https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-3s-superbottle-easter-egg-is-a-fascin-1830992728
Two really big and important things I noted:
- he's very conversant with the growth of experienced engineering talent in China and how it came to be, and gives an example of the enormous interest in Tesla there. He's convinced that Tesla will improve on the Model 3's manufacturing processes and says the company will come out a clear winner in China. My own addition: unlike German companies who rely a lot on transplanted domestic suppliers, who is going to benefit?
- at the end, and if you listen attentively while he's interrupted, he voices his doubt regarding German companies' ability to compete in the EV sphere.
A lot more meat to the session. I suggest the battery pack was conceptually treated like a passenger for safety reasons.
Absolutely one to watch for anyone reading this - there's a trove of well founded information to be gleaned from it.
The part about the ingenious "superbottle" perfectly demonstrates this - ie., how much the working culture differs from established rivals and leads to obvious but unprecedented design decisions.
For more on the superbottle, see:
The Tesla Model 3 'Superbottle' Easter Egg Is a Fascinating Packaging Solution | David Tracy 12/18/18
... "It sure impressed me, and I used to design cooling systems." ...
https://jalopnik.com/the-tesla-model-3s-superbottle-easter-egg-is-a-fascin-1830992728
Two really big and important things I noted:
- he's very conversant with the growth of experienced engineering talent in China and how it came to be, and gives an example of the enormous interest in Tesla there. He's convinced that Tesla will improve on the Model 3's manufacturing processes and says the company will come out a clear winner in China. My own addition: unlike German companies who rely a lot on transplanted domestic suppliers, who is going to benefit?
- at the end, and if you listen attentively while he's interrupted, he voices his doubt regarding German companies' ability to compete in the EV sphere.
A lot more meat to the session. I suggest the battery pack was conceptually treated like a passenger for safety reasons.
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Nope, you don't really understand what Munro is saying - he's complaining about DEAD weight (i.e. useless weight that does nothing beneficial for the car).
Do you really not care about that? In that case please load your car to the maximum allowed cargo weight before you head to the track. Would you do that?
Didn't think so.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
If I understand what Jeff is talking about, using the battery case for structural integrity of the car implies that it becomes the front line of taking damage during an impact. Making the battery a crumple zone seems like a path to meltdowns, no?
ℬête Noire
Active Member
On curb weight of the vehicle, has anyone seen word on the upcoming Taycan about this? I've not been able to find anything, and I suspect that if the lowest spec's curb weight was below the Model 3 P we'd have had a "leak" or a not so-subtle-hint comment from Porsche about this already?
Sean Wagner
Member
Something that's already being forgotten thanks to Tesla's engineering efforts:
perceived battery safety is a matter of life or death for company.
perceived battery safety is a matter of life or death for company.
"
#1: - That Pavarotti isn't such a great singer
#2: - Oh, you went to his concert?
#1: - No, I've heard my neighbor sing his piece.
"
Maybe you need to familirize yourself with the topic before speaking out
Then you wouldn't sound so clueless.
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Right, by removing all that dead weight Munro mentions the car will not perform as current Model 3 because it will perform better.
Most likely the truth is somewhere in between. Munro did his dissection on RWD, right? Maybe there's more structure margin to accommodate for AWD and weaker battery structure for SR but it is also still very over engineered even for that.
If what Musk said to Munro is true it corroborates this.
ℬête Noire
Active Member
It's a lot of re-engineering work to get the same power output. That's the core of why you see faster 0-60 times on higher range variants, because a higher capacity battery, for the same given voltage and the same cells used in it, even though they have more mass to accelerate. The larger battery has more cells in parallel and more cells in parallel allows higher current output from the battery.
What city/town? Because every Peavey Mart has an 80A L2, and there are a number of places on the Trans Canada with as much L2 as the Model 3 can handle. There is also a number of parks with power for RVs, if you need to fill gaps. So you'll be able to get there, it's just a question spent charging of time for that last 350km.
Well it's longer than that this time of year, as you'll not be getting the 550km or so that the LR RWD is good for.A BEV in SK is definitely an adventure in the wilderness at this point, but it's not impossible.
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ℬête Noire
Active Member
No. Even if he's at the Southern edge of the province (and it's a Texas sized province) at this point Eastern Montana and all of North Dakota is worse.You could probably detour through US
The 2018 BMW 340i weighs in at 3555lbs. The Tesla Model 3 LR RWD weighs in at 3814lbs. That's a WHOPPING 259lbs difference and less that 7% additional weight. Big f'ing deal. Fill up the gas tank in the 340i and it's very close to the same weight as the Model 3.
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