Saving w/ Telsa or Spend more for service/warranty

[arthurk192]

This group may be a bit more biased but I'm going in circles trying to decide between going with Telsa solar panels at $2/W or a local installer quoting $2.69/W. The reviews online for Telsa solar is really low but with their new pricing i'm finding it hard to swallow paying $6k more for similar system but 25yr warranty on everything.

I'm going to try to negotiate with the installer to get the price down any further but I don't see a situation where going with someone else won't cost me $4-6K more than Tesla. Any experience and suggestions would be super appreciated. If you recently had your system installed by Tesla what panel and inverter did they use? It would be nice to know what the components were to help with the decision.

Thanks everyone!

 

[dancudds]

There's been some discussions around fake reviews online. Ask yourself the risk on default/bankruptcy for a local installer and whether you want to pay for their sales team etc.

 

[SMAlset]

Hanwha Q-Cell Q.Peak Duo Blk-G6+ that are 340W version.

Our inverter is the SolarEdge HD-Wave SE7600H sized for a medium install with 3PW.

If you want to get battery back up storage to use stored solar power during the rolling blackouts, PSPS etc our area of Calif is experiencing like now I think Tesla is still the way to go. Although trying to get PWs this late in year ordering might not happen until late 2020 or into 2021. But the other guys probably won’t have them either. Tesla and other installers are all pretty busy.

 

[jboy210]

There's been some discussions around fake reviews online. Ask yourself the risk on default/bankruptcy for a local installer and whether you want to pay for their sales team etc.

Good point. It is hard to know what is a "real" review. And even some of the big independents like Petersendean (P-D) are having issues.

They filled chapter 11 in June and sent me a letter saying they would be unable to get the products necessary to complete my project. They sent this letter even though we decided not to go with them 6 months earlier, and had sent them an email stating this. We went with a Tesla TeslaSolar for $1,000 less than the P-D quote. Same SolarRoof would likely now be $10,000 less, but we wanted to be among the first.

 

[arthurk192]

Hanwha Q-Cell Q.Peak Duo Blk-G6+ that are 340W version.

Our inverter is the SolarEdge HD-Wave SE7600H sized for a medium install with 3PW.

If you want to get battery back up storage to use stored solar power during the rolling blackouts, PSPS etc our area of Calif is experiencing like now I think Tesla is still the way to go. Although trying to get PWs this late in year ordering might not happen until late 2020 or into 2021. But the other guys probably won’t have them either. Tesla and other installers are all pretty busy.

Thanks thats super helpful! I wasn't sure if they're still using SolarEdge or had moved to micro inverters. I'm looking at either the 8 or 12kw system.

 

[SMAlset]

Thanks thats super helpful! I wasn't sure if they're still using SolarEdge or had moved to micro inverters. I'm looking at either the 8 or 12kw system.

The SolarEdge technology uses optimers which I understand are similar to micro inverters. I found a good article explaining and rating the different PV components. I’ll see if I can locate it and come back and post the link.

here’s the site’s section on inverters. Scroll down to SolarEdge. The site is out of Australia but it’s current 2020 info.

Best Solar Inverters 2020 — Clean Energy Reviews

 

[arthurk192]

True on fake vs real reviews and of course everyone else in the industry will try to badmouth their competitor so need to take that into account as well. I do wish Telsa had 25yr comprehensive warranty like the others vs just 10yrs.

Also not looking at PW for now but will apply for SGIP since my new home is in fire zone 2 and lets see if i can get some state funds to help cover the cost next year.

 

[SMAlset]

The Q-Cell 340s have 25 year warranty. The 315s previously used by Tesla were I think 12, but not relevant to new purchasers. The SolarEdge Inverter has a 12-25 year warranty, 12 years that I believe I was told can be extended to 25.

not sure about the SGIP category you would apply under; and I might be wrong but I thought they were not extending the funding at this point and were fully commited as of now except for very large systems and then think those aren’t geared to residental special designations.

 

[SoCal Dave]

I went with Tesla to save the $6K+ compared to other installers.

First, I saw lots of reviews about post support issues. As my yearly electric costs are $2,700, it would require my Tesla system to be down for over 2 years before it would be more economical to go with another provider.

Secondly, individual components are relatively inexpensive in the direct market. The most expensive component in my system is the inverter and it is only $2K. So unless this fails multiple times out of Tesla warranty (which is 10 years), I'm still ahead.

Also, I've personally found warranties are hit and miss when you actually try to use them if the company is still around. I'm also betting Tesla would be more likely to be around in 10-25 years compared to some other installer.

 

[Nikola91423]

Part of the decision for me is the long term viability of the installing company. I believe Tesla Solar is more likely to be in business in 10 years, compared with a smaller company which may offer better service. I typically choose to go with smaller business. However, the prospect of a solar company going out of business for such a big purchase, is a large factor.

 

[arthurk192]

I went with Tesla to save the $6K+ compared to other installers.

First, I saw lots of reviews about post support issues. As my yearly electric costs are $2,700, it would require my Tesla system to be down for over 2 years before it would be more economical to go with another provider.

Secondly, individual components are relatively inexpensive in the direct market. The most expensive component in my system is the inverter and it is only $2K. So unless this fails multiple times out of Tesla warranty (which is 10 years), I'm still ahead.

Also, I've personally found warranties are hit and miss when you actually try to use them if the company is still around. I'm also betting Tesla would be more likely to be around in 10-25 years compared to some other installer.

Thanks Dave. Reading your post and experience with Tesla is actually what made me want to take a harder look at using them again. Good perspective on checking the savings over how long before it wouldn't be more economical to go with Tesla, 2+ years for me looking at the numbers. I think I'll pay the $100 just to talk to someone and see where it goes.

Did they offer you any extender warranty on the inverter?

 

[arthurk192]

The Q-Cell 340s have 25 year warranty. The 315s previously used by Tesla were I think 12, but not relevant to new purchasers. The SolarEdge Inverter has a 12-25 year warranty, 12 years that I believe I was told can be extended to 25.

not sure about the SGIP category you would apply under; and I might be wrong but I thought they were not extending the funding at this point and were fully commited as of now except for very large systems and then think those aren’t geared to residental special designations.

SGIP funding was extended past the Jan 1,2021 to another 5yrs. My new home will be under the "high fire risk" which will hopefully get me priority access to the funds. I need to wait to apply until after I close escrow in 2 weeks and see what happens. I think there is a waitlist though like you said so it won't be this year and i don't want to lose the 26% tax credit so that's why i'm thinking solar first then battery second.

 

[SoCal Dave]

Did they offer you any extender warranty on the inverter?

Glad my story has helped

I didn't ask about any changes in terms.

 

[LadyLion]

SGIP funding was extended past the Jan 1,2021 to another 5yrs. My new home will be under the "high fire risk" which will hopefully get me priority access to the funds. I need to wait to apply until after I close escrow in 2 weeks and see what happens. I think there is a waitlist though like you said so it won't be this year and i don't want to lose the 26% tax credit so that's why i'm thinking solar first then battery second.

If you go with PWs at the same time, there is a bundle discount. I got $2500 off three PWs.
The $100 application fee is refundable if you change your mind at any time into the process.
I believe if you are using SGIP with the fire zone reliance section of SGIP you can proceed with that application as soon as possible, ie before installation. You can get SGIP approval and funds in the following year and adjust your tax return by amending if your receive funds from SGIP.

 

[LadyLion]

If you go with PWs at the same time, there is a bundle discount. I got $2500 off three PWs.
The $100 application fee is refundable if you change your mind at any time into the process.
I believe if you are using SGIP with the fire zone reliance section of SGIP you can proceed with that application as soon as possible, ie before installation. You can get SGIP approval and funds in the following year and adjust your tax return by amending if your receive funds from SGIP.

SGIP fire zone also requires a medical reason and PGE approval of Medical baseline status. This has certain requirements that need to be medically verified and life threatening medical conditions that require electricity. It requires two parts:fire zone and medical necessity for power. The funding for this category is going to be available on and off going forward. This category will get approximately 80+% of the funds.

 

[SMAlset]

With fires all around everywhere here in the SFBay area I wonder if that fire zone category has been expanded. We have homes in our town that have been ordered evacuated and we’re not all that far from those areas. Been getting Emergency Alerts on my cellphone over the last few days.

 

[arthurk192]

So I took the leap and figured worst case I'm out $100. The design I got back which i assume is automated makes no sense and is totally different then all of the other quotes I received. Is there a reasonably good review process where I can push back on the layout their system has selected?

My roof line at the back of the house is West facing which i'm told is 2nd best but they only put a few panels there and most on the front of the house plus some on the side facing north. All other designs had all of the panels facing West with a few providers putting 2-4 facing south. I also have a detached garage that faces south that doesn't even show up on their diagram. Most people are excluding it because of the large tree covering it from behind but we plan on significantly trimming that tree.

 

[arthurk192]

Wow so far I'm impressed by Tesla's speed. I already have project advisor assigned and he's emailed me updates on where they are in the process. I also got an automated text saying they received our permits which i can't believe is actually true since I don't own the home yet lol.

 

[tikhipoodi]

I'm going through the same exact process. I paid the $100 and got a Solar Layout that was the opposite of what most other providers had recommended. More panels on the North side then South where I'd have the most exposure to sun. I was recommended the medium size at 8.16kw which were 24 panels producing 7.4kw annually. When I pushed back on the layout and gave them a copy of the suggested layout, they came back relatively quickly and provided a redesigned layout. The new layout conformed to my request, all panels facing south. However, they reduced the size to 6.8kw, 20 panels, with estimated production of 8.4kw annually. What a difference. Lower cost, greater output.

My only concern is the warranty right now. Though the panel's data sheet shows 25 year product and performance warranty, my solar agreement says 'minimum of 12 years' workmanship warranty and 25 years performance. I asked Tesla to update agreement to match this data sheet at 25 years and they refused to make any updates. Not sure if the spec sheet of the Q-cell G6+ is only alluding to the performance warranty. The other issue I have is that my Solar Layout shows the G6+ panels, but when I asked my rep which panels I'll be receiving, she said the G8. They both show pretty much the same specs, but G6+ has he 25 year warranty.

 

[dancudds]

My only concern is the warranty right now. Though the panel's data sheet shows 25 year product and performance warranty, my solar agreement says 'minimum of 12 years' workmanship warranty and 25 years performance. I asked Tesla to update agreement to match this data sheet at 25 years and they refused to make any updates. Not sure if the spec sheet of the Q-cell G6+ is only alluding to the performance warranty. The other issue I have is that my Solar Layout shows the G6+ panels, but when I asked my rep which panels I'll be receiving, she said the G8. They both show pretty much the same specs, but G6+ has he 25 year warranty.

25 years seems 2.5x better than 10 years on the warranty but again you've gotta game theory yourself here. What's the chance and loss if the entire system fails 10 years and 1 days after PTO? What's the likelihood that tech has moved on greatly since then anyways. What's the likelihood of a local installer coming out to fix an issue 24 years after an install?