Saw a Performance Dual Motor Model 3 today at the track!

[McRat]

I'd love to be wrong, but I'm guessing AWD will be a $5k option, just like it was on the Model S.
I can't see where there would be a massive savings on the Model 3 since the Model S uses a plain induction motor up front.

But more importantly, I think the market will accept $5,000.

A Model S 75D is $75k. A Model 3 75D PUP for $55k is a bargain since it will have much better range and probably better performance.

 

[MXWing]

I will buy D if it's $3k or less.

You will not be buying a D.

$4,750 is my Price is Right number.

 

[MXWing]

I'd love to be wrong, but I'm guessing AWD will be a $5k option, just like it was on the Model S.
I can't see where there would be a massive savings on the Model 3 since the Model S uses a plain induction motor up front.

But more importantly, I think the market will accept $5,000.

A Model S 75D is $75k. A Model 3 75D PUP for $55k is a bargain since it will have much better range and probably better performance.

Yeah but new Model S probably has a HUD, comes with free super charging (again), free SpaceX low orbital low latency internet, a signed poster of Elon Musk and integrated Boring Company flamethrowers.

Yeah.... the Model 3 75D PUP embarrasses the S. S needs a lot of a little something something or its done for.

 

[dragoljub]

I just want air suspension. The coils are too stiff for my taste. Feels great in smooth corners but too tough across less than smooth surfaces.

I wonder if air suspension can be retrofitted.

 

[Krash]

I just want air suspension. The coils are too stiff for my taste. Feels great in smooth corners but too tough across less than smooth surfaces.

I wonder if air suspension can be retrofitted.

I was told by an owner of a sub 1000 VIN that Tesla is trying to retrofit their original suspension with the later, softer setup. I suggested that the owner keep it original as some would value that for the track.

 

[mongo]

It's small. Much smaller compared to convector area.

Which means air speed is higher for a given volume. That speaks nothing to physical limit. Lower velocity at the convector implies higher temperature change due to increase dwell time (at the cost of lower heat transfer rate per unit volume)

No. Quantity of air is adjusted with flaps and chargers.

Cylinder count is somethings similar as number of poles electric motor has - it changes the sound, that's about it

Chargers alter the effective displacement, just like the throttle vane, intake runners, exhaust porting, muffler back pressure.... Keeping it apples to apples: an engine with more cylinders has more displacement and pulls more air/fuel at WOT and generates more heat.
1.9L four banger vs 6.0L V-8 (normally aspirated). At cruise, both would use a similar net power to move the same vehicle. However you can generate 3 times the heat load of the other. So on a track, which needs more cooling?

 

[JRP3]

You could have the same displacement regardless of cylinder count, i.e. 4 large cylinders vs 8 smaller cylinders but both totaling the same volume. Usually though an 8 cylinder engine will displace more than a 4 cylinder engine.

 

[ℬête Noire]

I can't see where there would be a massive savings on the Model 3 since the Model S uses a plain induction motor up front.

So is it can't or won't? It's at least plausible.

For starters the Model 3 is smaller and narrower. Curb weight about 15+% less mass (for the LR, a lot less for the SR) meaning the front engine itself can be about 10% smaller and the supporting items (transaxle, suspension, etc.) probably even less than that. It also means the power circuits between the battery and the front motor, can be rated even lower that the simple increase in efficiency would suggest. They'll need to be handling perhaps approaching %20 lower peaks, that means something.

The price gap between permanent magnet motors and induction motors [of the same power] has also been dropping, so there isn't as much gap to make up anymore.

 

[bandido]

The bigger issue and my continued rant is that there is no announcement of these "Updates" or upgrades? Most car companies give a one year notice of major changes/redesigns. Everyone is assuming a stealth Model S redesign with the addition of some circa 2014 features, blindspot, Topview cameras, HUD, phone integration, but this is pure speculation. I would LOVE a performance Model 3, but worry there will be no notice, much like bumper refresh, folding seats in the X new MCU, etc... I know fanboyz do not care, but I would freak if I spend $70-100k and it is updated the following week... This from a car company that cannot get me a replacement windshield going on 6 WEEKS!!! Seriously, Tesla makes 3 cars, get me some glass!!

 

[shrspeedblade]

I suspect information will be more forthcoming once they have Model 3 production up to a steady 5000/week and S/X is back humming as well.

 

[MP3Mike]

I suspect information will be more forthcoming once they have Model 3 production up to a steady 5000/week and S/X is back humming as well.

What do you mean by "and S/X is back humming as well"? S&X production was so good this quarter that they took a day off. (They had already met their projected production.)

 

[shrspeedblade]

I read that they briefly paused it to go all in on Model 3?
Tesla pushes forward on Model 3 production, temporary shutdown in place for Model S, X production line
Nevermind, just saw they updated it.

 

[JRP3]

The bigger issue and my continued rant is that there is no announcement of these "Updates" or upgrades? Most car companies give a one year notice of major changes/redesigns.

Tesla has decided not to wait a year to introduce upgrades. Maybe at some point they will but I would not count on it.

 

[S'toon]

Franz's personal Model 3. Note the red calipers, and the spoiler. First Performance model delivered?
A look at Tesla Chief Designer’s stunning custom Model 3

 

[Brando]

An induction motor is cheaper than a magnetic motor. I'm guessing $5k additional.

Model 3 motor is lighter (less raw materials) and extra volume of manufacturing [100,000 vs 500,000] MAY mean that there is no significant cost difference in motors. And for now the Model 3 battery pack&cells seem less expensive than Model S/X. Which is to say it is a little early to claim cost differences when we know so few details.

 

[Daniel in SD]

As long as we're speculating, it's likely that the dual motor will be similar performance to the RWD. Half size motors front and rear = same total motor power = same total motor cost. The cost difference is mostly the additional differential and driveshaft. I'm guessing $4k since Elon said it would be cheaper than it is for the Model S. I wouldn't be surprised if they bundle it for the initial builds to increase margins. I also wouldn't be surprised if the performance model comes out at the same time or possibly even before the dual motor. The performance models are super high margin.

 

[sreams]

As long as we're speculating, it's likely that the dual motor will be similar performance to the RWD. Half size motors front and rear = same total motor power = same total motor cost. The cost difference is mostly the additional differential and driveshaft. I'm guessing $4k since Elon said it would be cheaper than it is for the Model S. I wouldn't be surprised if they bundle it for the initial builds to increase margins. I also wouldn't be surprised if the performance model comes out at the same time or possibly even before the dual motor. The performance models are super high margin.

The configurator shows the same rear motor as the single-motor Model 3 for the dual-motor option. I suppose they could be showing a layout that is specific to the performance model here, but that seems doubtful at this stage.

 

[Yggdrasill]

The drive units likely aren't very expensive, probably something like $2000-3000 each (I'd guess $4000-$4500 price for the customer for D). It would be adding unnecessary complexity to have a different rear drive unit to save maybe $500. Scale and simplicity is everything to the success of the Model 3.

A more relevant question is if the performance version of the Model 3 will have a more powerful rear drive unit. If they really wanted to go overboard, they could even double up with two rear drive units, which would allow for rear axle torque vectoring. Assuming a 10-20k cost for performance, there would certainly be room for doing it.

 

[T34ME]

A look at Tesla Chief Designer’s stunning custom Model 3

Now we're talkin' !

 

[arnis]

Franz's personal Model 3. Note the red calipers, and the spoiler.

I like the rear Tesla logo the most. Don't like the handles. Don't like the spoiler. Calipers are fine,
but can be counted as "scam" due to them being not capable at all. Or maybe these are are better than those that
got toasted with brake pads on the track.