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Say no to Saudi Arabia

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I would be scared to go to Saudi Arabia. Why would I go? I prefer to limit my exposure to theocratic dystopias to books and movies.

I like nice democratic countries where I won't be arrested for "moral reasons" or flogged or executed for some crazy charge. I won't go to Singapore, either, btw, in case someone accuses me of throwing a wrapper on the ground. I'd never do that, but a random wrapper might float in the breeze and land nearby.

Every day here in Oregon (barring increasing smoke from wildfires, made worse by climate change) I go for a walk, by rivers and in forests, often alone, without a male guardian. In my walks I see other women out and about all on their own. They walk. They run. They walk their dogs. Some of the regulars including males say hi. They don't bother me, not even when I'm all on my own. I can drive to wherever I want, work, do whatever I please. I'm free person.

Why would I do business with a country I'm afraid to set foot in? Where being the wrong type of Muslim, or an atheist, or of a different religion, especially Jewish or Christian, is very risky and potentially punishable by death? I saw the names of the law firms retained by Elon and I had to laugh. I hope they have all their meetings in the U.S.

If you look at pictures from Iran from the 1970s, you might be shocked to see what the women wore. The thing is, when you don't have democracy, things can shift like that, very quickly. Democracy protects us. Up to a point, I guess.

Elon is a genius. He's playing multi dimensional chess. But there's a dimension here I fear he doesn't get.

Saudi Arabia Blocks Israel’s Chess Team From World Championships
yuck...talk about media brainwash. Seriously, you should travel more........
 
Apart from the oppressive regime thing, it's unstable, dependent on the whims of this or that person and on interpersonal intrigue and power struggles. One day someone's king. The next they're hanged in the town square. One day someone professes he's all for modernization, the next he's rounding up peaceful protestors. JUST LAST WEEK they had a crazy fight with Canada. Just like that. All Saudis in training and in school, who surprisingly have to follow orders as though they were soldiers, are pulled from Canada. I was really surprised that they could order people around like that. It's not a democracy, is the thing. You don't own your own life. Last week this happened, not in a different century.

Stay away from this, Elon.
 
Iran in the 1970s is a terrible example as, while some of their people looked modern, they were living under an oppressive regime which eventually got overthrown.

I like nice democratic countries where I won't be arrested for "moral reasons" or flogged or executed for some crazy charge. I won't go to Singapore, either, btw, in case someone accuses me of throwing a wrapper on the ground. I'd never do that, but a random wrapper might float in the breeze and land nearby.

Every day here in Oregon (barring increasing smoke from wildfires, made worse by climate change) I go for a walk, by rivers and in forests, often alone, without a male guardian. In my walks I see other women out and about all on their own. They walk. They run. They walk their dogs. Some of the regulars including males say hi. They don't bother me, not even when I'm all on my own. I can drive to wherever I want, work, do whatever I please. I'm free person.

Right, but if Elon Musks says Saudi Arabia is good then we can excuse/forgive/forget Saudi Arabia for any violations they have ever done or will do in the future.
 
Iran in the 1970s is a terrible example as, while some of their people looked modern, they were living under an oppressive regime which eventually got overthrown.

Right, but if Elon Musks says Saudi Arabia is good then we can excuse/forgive/forget Saudi Arabia for any violations they have ever done or will do in the future.

That was my point about Iran. When you don't have democracy, things change in an instant.

I'm not sure what you're saying in the second part, but I disagree that we can or should forget or excuse or forgive, especially future actions.
 
Uhm Qatar != saudi arabia....they don`t even like each other.....just saying.....
So that makes Qatar not oppressive? (Answer is no.)
Qatar being oppressive doesn't make VW oppressive. Qatar didn't make VW act like a drug company suppressing negative research, it did it because it made a hugely expensive technological error and refused to accept the financial consequences.

To me a private company is judged by the group that controls it, not all of the shareholders. If Saudi Arabia controlled it, I'd run a mile. But Saudi control isn't what's on the table right now. If private Tesla's successful Saudi Arabia will profit (it already will, since it owns shares), but by virtue of weakening the stranglehold of oil, Saudi Arabia would also be far less influential, because money can escape civil war, but natural resources can't, and the less we care about oil, the less we care about the Saudi regime.
 
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well that`s one way to sidestep the fact that you couldn`t even tell qatar and saudi arabia apart 10 minutes ago :rolleyes: despite having a very strong opinion about the region.

`murica-.......


I love this thread :D
_You_ introduced VW to this thread. _You_ compared the criticism of VW and called it inconsistent. I addressed _your_ argument.
Qatar is a major shareholder in VW. Qatar is an oppressive country. VW is not judged by Qatar's oppression.
Should Tesla be judged by Saudi Arabia's oppression if Saudi Arabia becomes a major shareholder in Tesla?

PS I'm not American.
 
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Qatar owns less than 15% of VW group.

Certainly sounds like the Saudis would own a lot more than 15% if Tesla is being "taken private".

And yes, we should excuse/ignore any future human rights violations, sponsorship of terrorism, etc from Saudi Arabia if they are helping Elon's mission and vision.
 
_You_ introduced VW to this thread. _You_ compared the criticism of VW and called it inconsistent. I addressed _your_ argument.
Qatar is a major shareholder in VW. Qatar is an oppressive country. VW is not judged by Qatar's oppression.
Should Tesla be judged by Saudi Arabia's oppression if Saudi Arabia becomes a major shareholder in Tesla?

PS I'm not American.
eh, now you`re comparing qatar`s 17% (vs the 72% of the piech family and saxony) on VW with the situation at Tesla where SA would most likely end up with at least 30+% of the company and thus several seats in the top management as well as being the biggest individual shareholder by far....apples and oranges, but okay.
 
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eh, now you`re comparing qatar`s 17% (vs the 72% of the piech family and saxony) on VW with the situation at Tesla where SA would most likely end up with at least 30+% of the company and thus several seats in the top management as well as being the biggest individual shareholder by far....apples and oranges, but okay.
30%<50% which means that they would not control the company.
But 17%, oh that's nothing. (Wait, did you even realize the Qataris owned that much?)
Qatar doesn't control VW, Saudi Arabia wouldn't control Tesla.
If VW is profitable an oppressive country will profit.
If private Tesla is profitable an oppressive country will profit.
Apples and oranges are both fruit.
Either minority investors matter or they don't.
 
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30%<50% which means that they would not control the company.
Qatar doesn't control VW, Saudi Arabia wouldn't control Tesla.
If VW is profitable an oppressive country will profit.
If private Tesla is profitable an oppressive country will profit.
Apples and oranges are both fruit.
Either minority investors matter or they don't.

If it really is only 30%, maybe Elon can convince Kim Jon Un of North Korea to pony up another 30%! It would be a great segway to improving NK - USA relations.
 
eh, now you`re comparing qatar`s 17% (vs the 72% of the piech family and saxony) on VW with the situation at Tesla where SA would most likely end up with at least 30+% of the company and thus several seats in the top management as well as being the biggest individual shareholder by far....apples and oranges, but okay.
I cant get past this idea that they will pony up scores of billions of dollars yet have no influence because Elon says so. *cough*bullsht*cough*
 
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And someone I went to school with got into drugs and stole a car when he was a teen. He’s now in his late 40’s and is in jail for killing an 8 year old in a drive-by shooting having missed his intended target; another gang member.

Sure, it would have been cheaper to cut off his hands 25 years ago, but luckily...oh, wait.

For clarity I am not expressing any opinion on capital punishment, torture or anything remotely on topic, just showing you for every one of your stories there’s at least one that’s an opposite one making your point: irrelevant.
...and yet you used an individual case to make your argument just a post above...
It’s not quite the same.
My individual case was not used to identify trends or a comparison between countries. It’s just a reminder than permanent punishments continue to be inflicted, sometimes long after they are appropriate.

But if one is trying to work out if Country A is more or less progressive than Country B then individual cases don’t matter as much as the totals, because every country has lots of individual cases.
 
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