I almost want to ask ppl of Saudi background to refrain from posting in this thread lol.
You must have missed this article. Very humanitarian indeed.
Wedding Is Hit by Airstrike in Yemen, Killing More Than 20
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Say no to Saudi Arabia
- Thread starter notacoalminer
- Start date
I almost want to ask ppl of Saudi background to refrain from posting in this thread lol.
You must have missed this article. Very humanitarian indeed.
Wedding Is Hit by Airstrike in Yemen, Killing More Than 20
Thanks for answering the question.
You can either tell me what your intense interest/connection to Saudi Arabia is, or you cannot. Your choice.
Sean Wagner
Member
The idea mooted above that the current prince is moving Saudi Arabia away from heavy handed repression because some tightly controlled top-down cosmetics are being applied does not fit with reality.
I'll repost one relevant source and add an excerpt:
August 1, 2018
Prominent Saudi Women Activists Arrested
Samar Badawi, Nassima al-Sadah Among Latest Crackdown Victims
(Beirut) – Saudi authorities have arrested the internationally recognized women’s rights activist Samar Badawi and an Eastern Province activist, Nassima al-Sadah, in the past two days, Human Rights Watch said today. Badawi and al-Sadah are the latest victims of an unprecedented government crackdown on the women’s rights movement that began on May 15, 2018 and has resulted in the arrest of more than a dozen activists.
Badawi, a recipient of the United States’ 2012 International Women of Courage Award, is best known for challenging Saudi Arabia’s discriminatory male guardianship system. She was one of the first women to petition Saudi authorities to allow women the right to drive as well as the right to vote and run in municipal elections. Al-Sadah, from the coastal city of Qatif, has also long campaigned both for abolishing the guardianship system and lifting the driving ban. She was a candidate in the 2015 local elections, the first time women were allowed to run, but the authorities removed her name from the ballot, ultimately barring her from running.
...
Prominent Saudi Women Activists Arrested
More detailed analysis from Human Rights Watch:
< World Report 2017: Rights Trends in Saudi Arabia
< Country file Saudi Arabia
I'll repost one relevant source and add an excerpt:
August 1, 2018
Prominent Saudi Women Activists Arrested
Samar Badawi, Nassima al-Sadah Among Latest Crackdown Victims
(Beirut) – Saudi authorities have arrested the internationally recognized women’s rights activist Samar Badawi and an Eastern Province activist, Nassima al-Sadah, in the past two days, Human Rights Watch said today. Badawi and al-Sadah are the latest victims of an unprecedented government crackdown on the women’s rights movement that began on May 15, 2018 and has resulted in the arrest of more than a dozen activists.
Badawi, a recipient of the United States’ 2012 International Women of Courage Award, is best known for challenging Saudi Arabia’s discriminatory male guardianship system. She was one of the first women to petition Saudi authorities to allow women the right to drive as well as the right to vote and run in municipal elections. Al-Sadah, from the coastal city of Qatif, has also long campaigned both for abolishing the guardianship system and lifting the driving ban. She was a candidate in the 2015 local elections, the first time women were allowed to run, but the authorities removed her name from the ballot, ultimately barring her from running.
...
Prominent Saudi Women Activists Arrested
More detailed analysis from Human Rights Watch:
< World Report 2017: Rights Trends in Saudi Arabia
< Country file Saudi Arabia
Canuck
Well-Known Member
There was no attempt to undermine the government but only to expose the facts. If you really did read "all accounts" you would know that, but you readily admit your news source must be solely from Saudi Arabia since that is the only place where the press has "all accounts" that accord with your personal opinion. With a free press, you can read other opinions that differ from your view, and this another account you don't even know exists by your own admission! -- yet you call others "ignorant"?:
Opinion | Saudi Arabia’s Ugly Spat With Canada
The government of Saudi Arabia is not being undermined by Canada -- it does that to itself in its response -- and it can simply do the right thing, and end the dispute today -- if it wanted to. So who is doing the undermining?
You stand by corrupt thugs over Canada and then state "all accounts" support your view and call others ignorant? Do you even read your own posts and try to make sense of them because few, if any, of us can.
This is what got Canada into trouble. She's married to a Canadian I believe, which is why the Cdn gov't got involved. But apparently that's "meddling where we don't belong" or something lol...
I don't think people have stopped putting gasoline in their cars because the oil comes from Saudi Arabia.
Sean Wagner
Member
To be precise, this single tweet by the foreign minister kicked off our historic friend and allies' economic vendetta against the dangerous, out-of-control [BAD!] entity to our north:
Chrystia Freeland @cafreeland
Very alarmed to learn that Samar Badawi, Raif Badawi’s sister, has been imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. Canada stands together with the Badawi family in this difficult time, and we continue to strongly call for the release of both Raif and Samar Badawi.
Chrystia Freeland on Twitter
Sean Wagner
Member
But part of my support for Tesla, EVs, and ever cheaper renewable energy is predicated precisely on ending this sorry state of affairs.
jacobp
Member
I agree with you 100%. I own two Model S vehicles. I love them and Tesla and have been an ardent supporter of Tesla. I am NOT a short seller. But giving the Saudis a near-majority share in Tesla is too much for me. As you correctly point out, the Saudi regime, which controls the PIF, is a murderous, disgusting regime. They are the birthplace of modern terrorism and Wahabiism is still the dominant sect of Saudi's form of Sunni Islam. Buying a car whose profits will enrich these murderous thugs is just not right. Have Americans already forgotten where 9/11 was hatched. I'm appalled that Elon would be so blinded by money, dirty, dirty money. And has the thought occurred to anyone that this Saudi investment, which is a drop in the bucket to them, is being used by them so they can kill Tesla and facilitate the worldwide dominance of ICE cars, and oil, again. These are ruthless people interested only in their own wealth and succession in continuing that wealth. There is nothing that is beyond the pale for them. This is a very, very sad development.
jacobp
Member
You cannot compare anything the US does with what KSA does in a day, week, or year. You just don't understand the malevolence that is at the heart of the rulers of KSA.
jacobp
Member
Have you given any thought to the possibility that the Saudis might be willing to make this "investment" for the sole purpose of killing Tesla so that the world once again is solely dependent on oil. And don't think for a minute that the other car manufacturers would continue EV development if Tesla weren't around. They would drop such development faster than GM dropped the EV-1 as soon as they could.
jacobp
Member
Compairing mass hangings; stonings; dismemberment; subjugation of women, etc. Etc. To what happens in the US is just silly.
jacobp
Member
You entirely miss the point. It is not what the Saudi private person does that troubles the OP and me. It is what the government does. Your statistics reflect private actions. Private crime is low in Saudi Arabia because the penalties are so severe, just like in the Handmaid's Tale.
jacobp
Member
Would you have had any problem buying a German car in the 1930s, fully in accordance with US regulations, knowing that the profits of your car purchase would be used to perpetuate the Holocaust?
I worked in the godforsaken country of Saudi Arabia in the early nineties during my youth. I went in on a 2-year contract but was so fed up with their rules and lack of freedom, that I left it in 10 months. I would have left much much earlier but they require an exit visa and the process was way too complicated for me to navigate. All forms were in Arabic and I had no clue to what went on. And my passport was confiscated by my employer, for safekeeping they said.
I saw the religious police abuse women for the simplest of things. One example I remember distinctly was about some young women who were obeying all the covered from head-to-toe rules, but as they were climbing the stairs into a local mall, their ankles were showmeing. No socks, just open toed shoes. That sent the muthawa (religious police) into a frenzy and two of them whipped these young women around their ankles all the way into the mall. The incident lasted less than 30 seconds but it reminded me how backward the country was.
Another time, I was riding a shuttle from work to the Citibank gym and the bus was randomly stopped in the middle of Riyadh by some police. They all asked us to hold up our iqama (identity card). They were color coded: green if you were Muslim, brown if you were not. I'm Christian. All the Muslims were ignored but all the non-Muslims were frisked for religious artifacts such as a cross on a necklace or rings with stuff, or photos in your wallet.
The Saudis I worked with had nothing but disdain for America. There is no alcohol available in the country and the most drunk and unruly people on the flights out are all Saudis.
Needless to say, the minute I got my exit visa I departed to the airport. All the economy seats on the first flight out were sold out and there was only one first class ticket left. That is the one and only time I've flown first class. I still remember the thud of the undercarriage lifting off the runway and the moment the aircraft leaves the Saudi coastline.
Now, the bastages are starving the entire country of Yemen (and yes with the full logistical support of the USofA). A refugee crisis that will make Syria look like paradise.
Oh, did I say it's a godforsaken country.
I saw the religious police abuse women for the simplest of things. One example I remember distinctly was about some young women who were obeying all the covered from head-to-toe rules, but as they were climbing the stairs into a local mall, their ankles were showmeing. No socks, just open toed shoes. That sent the muthawa (religious police) into a frenzy and two of them whipped these young women around their ankles all the way into the mall. The incident lasted less than 30 seconds but it reminded me how backward the country was.
Another time, I was riding a shuttle from work to the Citibank gym and the bus was randomly stopped in the middle of Riyadh by some police. They all asked us to hold up our iqama (identity card). They were color coded: green if you were Muslim, brown if you were not. I'm Christian. All the Muslims were ignored but all the non-Muslims were frisked for religious artifacts such as a cross on a necklace or rings with stuff, or photos in your wallet.
The Saudis I worked with had nothing but disdain for America. There is no alcohol available in the country and the most drunk and unruly people on the flights out are all Saudis.
Needless to say, the minute I got my exit visa I departed to the airport. All the economy seats on the first flight out were sold out and there was only one first class ticket left. That is the one and only time I've flown first class. I still remember the thud of the undercarriage lifting off the runway and the moment the aircraft leaves the Saudi coastline.
Now, the bastages are starving the entire country of Yemen (and yes with the full logistical support of the USofA). A refugee crisis that will make Syria look like paradise.
Oh, did I say it's a godforsaken country.
jacobp
Member
I'm afraid you are overstating things quite a bit. While the young prince may be making noises about reform. The King is still in charge and he has been anything but a reformer. The KSA leadership will do whatever it takes to stay in power. That has always been the case.
Wshowell
Member
Phew...just in time, I heard the Taliban was thinking of financing Faraday Future. Forget human rights, CapEx, EBITDA and EPS are what really matters right? (Dripping with sarcasm) This (Sovereign sponsored investing) is a very very slippery slope. I don’t have an answer but I’m not exactly liking the plan. On the brighter side, would we rather the Kingdom spend their money buying into an environmentally conscious US based company or using their oil dollars to buy more weaponry from us? If only given those two choices, I think I’d choose the former.
Barklikeadog
Active Member
Well the oil companies (and nations) are seeing that electric cars are not going to be stopped despite their best efforts in the past and are going to affect their industry in a big, growing wave, so they have begun getting into the charging stations themself. A number of stories out there already on their plans. If they can't sell you gas they'll sell you electricity right along side gas so people will still be supporting the oil companies. Cleaner fuel but I wouldn't count of eliminating oil companies from the mix even 20 years from now.
As for Elon giving up any kind of control over Tesla, don't think he would let that happen. His mission in life is making sure we have cleaner air and don't think he'd trade short seller impact for loss of control of Tesla. Too important to him from a transportation and energy perspective. He's made this statement today in his latest blog post on Tesla.com (Update on Taking Tesla Private, 8/13): "I continue to have discussions with the Saudi fund, and I also am having discussions with a number of other investors, which is something that I always planned to do since I would like for Tesla to continue to have a broad investor base." And aside from political/social views (which I think are important as well), Saudi Arabia has for a while now been investing in clean energy. They are a country with limited oil reserves and water and vegetation concerns. If you believe in green house gases contributing to increased temperatures, they have a invested interest in making a change. Governments and policies come and go as we all know too well, look at our own EPA.
BTW Elon said in that blog post that he's talking to the major shareholders who have believed in and supported Tesla's goals from early on. He doesn't believe the majority of shareholders will cash out so feels the equity investment by others won't be as large as some people think. He's reached out to his employees as well for their feelings. Everything is dependant on what the board and shareholders want going forward. Could end up going nowhere when put to the vote. I expect shorts will be out there in force trying to maintain the status quo with everything they have before moving on to some other company. But I do feel the majority of shareholders are stick and tired of the shorts' manipulation of the stock and the pressure it puts on the company to move forward.
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Tam
Well-Known Member
Moral and money is quite a difficult issue.
The U.S. has been doing the jet refueling in the middle of a flight in the air for the Saudi Arabia jets to do bombing over Yemen.
Without U.S. mid-air refueling, Saudi Arabia jets don't have enough range to make their bombing sorties over Yemen.
Does that mean Tesla should not allow shareholders from the U.S.?
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