Say no to Saudi Arabia

[Krugerrand]

A good friend of mine got into drugs and stole a car when he was a teenager. He's now in his late 40s and is the CTO of a large telco.
Sure, it would have been cheaper to cut his hands off 25 years ago, but luckily we live in a country where compassion and common sense prevails.

And someone I went to school with got into drugs and stole a car when he was a teen. He’s now in his late 40’s and is in jail for killing an 8 year old in a drive-by shooting having missed his intended target; another gang member.

Sure, it would have been cheaper to cut off his hands 25 years ago, but luckily...oh, wait.

For clarity I am not expressing any opinion on capital punishment, torture or anything remotely on topic, just showing you for every one of your stories there’s at least one that’s an opposite one making your point: irrelevant.

 

[Krugerrand]

I'd be interested to see trends, rather than individual cases. That would show if Saudi is getting better or worse. I have the sense that Saudi is getting better, on average.
It's hard to make comparisons based on individual cases, because just about every country has enough horribleness to fill a blog post.

...and yet you used an individual case to make your argument just a post above...

 

[Krugerrand]

That's the problem. Elon built something beautiful - you called it the crown jewel of corporations, which I think is apt. Now's he's gone and attached it to something vile.

Now what?

Stop being so melodramatic, that’s what. And go start your own EV company and ask the Pope or whoever you feel is pure and virtuous to invest in it. Since clearly you could do better than Elon and Tesla.

 

[IhateOPEC]

Exactly. It's very hard, pretty much not feasible, to be "clean" in the modern, globalized world. I try, at all times, to find an alternative to buying stuff made by China. However, my phone is made there, TV, other electronics,....Clothes? None from there. My cars for sure not, American if at all possible.

True, but one can choose to be as "clean" as possible. Up unil now Tesla was the best car company to support if you had morals. It was made in the mostly friendly countries. Japan, Korea, The EU, and USA provided most labor of the car. The fuel was mostly good old West Virginia coal.

Now it appears that GM, or maybe Toyota may be the way to go.

For the record, I try to shop locally and buy US, Taiwan, Japan, Canada or EU products when given the choice. Yes I avoid Walmart.

Purity is impossible, but you can do your best not to support @$$holes financially.

 

[Barklikeadog]

True, but one can choose to be as "clean" as possible. Up unil now Tesla was the best car company to support if you had morals. It was made in the mostly friendly countries. Japan, Korea, The EU, and USA provided most labor of the car. The fuel was mostly good old West Virginia coal.

Now it appears that GM, or maybe Toyota may be the way to go.

For the record, I try to shop locally and buy US, Taiwan, Japan, Canada or EU products when given the choice. Yes I avoid Walmart.

Purity is impossible, but you can do your best not to support @$$holes financially.

It's not too difficult to buy American/EU/North American products. Just have to look for it. Obviously many electronic items are off the table, just can't avoid it. But for most items, an alternative is out there and it doesn't actually cost much more.

 

[Buggle]

It's not too difficult to buy American/EU/North American products. Just have to look for it. Obviously many electronic items are off the table, just can't avoid it. But for most items, an alternative is out there and it doesn't actually cost much more.

Apparel is tough, and when you can find it it costs a lot more.

 

[Sean Wagner]

Not only have Saudis used petrodollars to export their odious Wahhabi cult around the world, but they have also signally failed again and again to create anything of value.

It's not for nothing their funds are known as "the stupid money". If noone else can be found to step up and take Tesla private [assuming that's even a good thing], alarm bells should be ringing.

How is this mooted association in any way good for Tesla?

I happen to think that the pressure to perform financially is good for the company.

There's not been any indication to date that large scale investments needed to be scaled back permanently, and if the Model 3 can be sold with a healthy margin - which is essential anyway - nothing will stop the company from tapping more conventional sources of capital.

Maybe Elon Musk is uncomfortable with waiting a quarter or two until the Model 3 production system hums along. That's understandable, but a lot of work can still be done in the meantime, and getting it right on two more continents will be so much easier.

 

[Buggle]

The LA Times just wrote an article on this very topic...

Elon Musk says Tesla's goal is to destroy oil industry, but he wants to infuse Tesla with oil money

 

[Phrixotrichus]

If find it fascinating that some people see VW with their Dieselgate as the devil himself, but somehow Saudi money is ok, despite them being some of the worst religious fanatics on the planet.....

Personally idc either way, money is money.

Just looking forward to the hardcore tesla fanatics continuing their war on the so called "big oil" while Tesla is quasi-owned by exactly those people. That`s gonna be hilarious.

 

[Cloxxki]

The LA Times just wrote an article on this very topic...

Elon Musk says Tesla's goal is to destroy oil industry, but he wants to infuse Tesla with oil money

Blood money is the new oil money.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Apparel is tough, and when you can find it it costs a lot more.

Sure, if you're buying Lucchese

 

[Cloxxki]

If find it fascinating that some people see VW with their Dieselgate as the devil himself, but somehow Saudi money is ok, despite them being some of the worst religious fanatics on the planet.....

Personally idc either way, money is money.

Just looking forward to the hardcore tesla fanatics continuing their war on the so called "big oil" while Tesla is quasi-owned by exactly those people. That`s gonna be hilarious.

The religious fanatic stuff is just the front for something very dark.
Like the West has bankers and prez campaign offices.

They are happy to slaughter Muslims who hold their Koran slightly differently. Which is how they can team up with Israel. No F's given when Gaza is leveled (with exclusively US arms) with all the people still in it.

 

[Barklikeadog]

If find it fascinating that some people see VW with their Dieselgate as the devil himself, but somehow Saudi money is ok, despite them being some of the worst religious fanatics on the planet.....

Personally idc either way, money is money.

Just looking forward to the hardcore tesla fanatics continuing their war on the so called "big oil" while Tesla is quasi-owned by exactly those people. That`s gonna be hilarious.

Ahh someday a poster here will start a thread complaining that some smart-arse asked him if he was driving 'one of those saudi cars'

 

[lklundin]

On a personal note, having placed an order (paid 3,500) what do I do at this point? If I do nothing, what will happen? Not sure I want a Tesla any more, though what's the alternative? Driving ICE. Ay. So what happens if I don't respond to a delivery notification? Or should I take some action?

On a personal note, I think you are very ill-informed about the state of the world, the various levels of badness found almost everywhere and the impossibility of avoiding moral compromises in almost any dealing.

Regardless of that, I strongly urge you to not make a purchase that you have moral qualms about. From a practical point of view, you should be able to cancel your M3 order for a full refund (if you have not yet received a VIN).

Edit: Your 3,500$ will buy you 10 Tesla shares, denying those shares to any immoral entity.

 

[Tam]

The LA Times just wrote an article on this very topic...

Elon Musk says Tesla's goal is to destroy oil industry, but he wants to infuse Tesla with oil money

Tesla has colluded with oil money well before this by doing business with Norway.

"The movement towards renewable energy in transportation has added significance for Norway, which is among the world’s most oil-rich nations. In 2016, exports of crude oil and natural gas accounted for NOK350 billion (US$42 billion)."

Norway sells oil but it tells its citizens to wean off from oil and buy EVs including Tesla cars.

Morality is quite a difficult subject and I am unsure that I could have an answer.

Norway is just like a drug dealer who sells drugs to strangers but tells its own kids that "don't use drugs but take vitamins instead."

So is it bad to sell vitamins to drug dealer's kids?

Or should it be better for Norway as a drug dealer to tell its kids to use its own drugs?

 

[Buggle]

Tesla has colluded with oil money well before this by doing business with Norway.

"The movement towards renewable energy in transportation has added significance for Norway, which is among the world’s most oil-rich nations. In 2016, exports of crude oil and natural gas accounted for NOK350 billion (US$42 billion)."

Norway sells oil but it tells its citizens to wean off from oil and buy EVs including Tesla cars.

Morality is quite a difficult subject and I am sure I have an answer.

Norway is just like a drug dealer who sells drugs to strangers but tells its own kids that don't use drugs but use vitamins instead.

So is it bad to sell vitamins to drug dealer's kids?

Or should it be better for Norway as a drug dealer to tell its kids to use its own drugs?

I give Norway a lot of space on this. If everyone drove as many EV's as they do in Norway oil would cease to be an issue. Norway has held up their end of the bargain. Most other places in the world that have lots of oil (Canada, USA, Saudi) are still <1% EV's.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

If find it fascinating that some people see VW with their Dieselgate as the devil himself, but somehow Saudi money is ok, despite them being some of the worst religious fanatics on the planet.....

Personally idc either way, money is money.

Just looking forward to the hardcore tesla fanatics continuing their war on the so called "big oil" while Tesla is quasi-owned by exactly those people. That`s gonna be hilarious.

VW is judged by its actions, not by Qatar's actions. It's really that simple.

I won't buy a VW, and I won't go to Saudi Arabia.

 

[Buggle]

Damn I love this thread. That is all.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

VW is judged by its actions, not by Qatar's actions. It's really that simple.

I won't buy a VW, and I won't go to Saudi Arabia.

Uhm Qatar != saudi arabia....they don`t even like each other.....just saying.....

 

[notacoalminer]

VW is judged by its actions, not by Qatar's actions. It's really that simple.

I won't buy a VW, and I won't go to Saudi Arabia.

I would be scared to go to Saudi Arabia. Why would I go? I prefer to limit my exposure to theocratic dystopias to books and movies.

I like nice democratic countries where I won't be arrested for "moral reasons" or flogged or executed for some crazy charge.

Every day here in Oregon (barring increasing smoke from wildfires, made worse by climate change) I go for a walk, by rivers and in forests, often alone, without a male guardian. In my walks I see other women out and about all on their own. They walk. They run. They walk their dogs. Some of the regulars including males say hi. They don't bother me, not even when I'm all on my own. I can drive to wherever I want, work, do whatever I please. I'm free person.

Why would I do business with a country I'm afraid to set foot in? Where being the wrong type of Muslim, or an atheist, or of a different religion, especially Jewish or Christian, is very risky and potentially punishable by death? I saw the names of the law firms retained by Elon and I had to laugh. I hope they have all their meetings in the U.S.

If you look at pictures from Iran from the 1970s, you might be shocked to see what the women wore. The thing is, when you don't have democracy, things can shift like that, very quickly. Democracy protects us. Up to a point, I guess.

Elon is a genius. He's playing multi dimensional chess. But there's a dimension here I fear he doesn't get.

Saudi Arabia Blocks Israel’s Chess Team From World Championships