On the drive in to work this morning I had a terrifying incident that almost caused a major accident on a busy Atlanta interstate. I was driving in one of the left lanes and noticed a car behind me clearly wanting to go faster than I was traveling. The next lane over was open and there was a tractor trailer two lanes over. I signaled to make the lane change and the car started to move into the right lane. As I moved over, the car behind me began to accelerate to pass me. Suddenly Autopilot mistakenly thought the semi-truck two lanes over was in the lane that I was moving into (showing it in red) and the car began moving back into my original lane. I jerked the wheel to the right and the car that was passing me slammed on his brakes, angrily honking his horn, flashing his lights, and giving me both fingers as he sped by. It was a seriously close call. I've noticed before, particularly with large trucks, that the visualization thinks the truck is one lane over when it is actually two lanes over. Not sure why this occurs.
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Scary AP incident this morning
- Thread starter Canefan456
- Start date
why are people relying on autopilot in these kind of situation. You are still the driver of the vehicle.
This is the answer. OP, you almost caused this accident. The driver behind you was right to be pissed.
I'm on your side on this one, OP. You have a right to ask this question.
This sounds like a fairly common use case - on the highway, needing to move over, to allow someone to pass. Should AP be disengaged when making a simple lane change?
To those defending AP, when is it SUPPOSED TO BE useful, if not for helping make freeway/highway driving less stressful? I don't even have a vehicle yet but have definitely seen a pattern of people on these forums immediately jumping to the "defense" of the car over any level of criticism. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me why people can't have a rational discussion without others minimizing their experience.
To those defending AP, when is it SUPPOSED TO BE useful, if not for helping make freeway/highway driving less stressful? I don't even have a vehicle yet but have definitely seen a pattern of people on these forums immediately jumping to the "defense" of the car over any level of criticism. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me why people can't have a rational discussion without others minimizing their experience.
DSolie
Pew Pew
AP has LONG had an issue with changing lanes when a semi is 2 lanes over. I don't even try it anymore, I'll disengage and move over manually, then re-engage. There are quite a few videos online detailing this issue.
gx9901
Active Member
OP, you were using FSD instead of standard AP, right? I didn't get FSD so my autosteer disengages when I turn on the turn signal. The auto lane change of FSD is one of only 2 current FSD features I kind of liked, but sounds like it shouldn't be used if there are large vehicles around you.
Total BS responses... Sorry. This was a routine lane change into a wide open lane to my right. This is something the current release of FSD does BY DESIGN on the freeway. With FSD activated, it makes lane changes by itself all the time. This was one initiated by me because I, the driver, deemed it safe to do so. The problem is the sensors on the car mistaking where the truck was, not my decision to change lanes. The fact that I still had control of the car is what prevented the accident. And by the way, the driver behind me speeding and riding my bumper was the unsafe driver in this scenario.. Not me.
Personally, I'm always leery of changing lanes into an open lane when there's another vehicle in the next lane, especially semis... If I do, I try to only do this if I can accelerate such that the front half of my car is ahead of the bumper of whatever vehicle is 2 lanes over. I've almost been sideswiped so many times over the years in this situation if there is a car 2 lanes over. This is why I try to avoid driving side-by-side with another vehicle as well... I always try to stay partially in front, so they can see that I'm next to them.
With regards to AP, I know what you mean. I almost always try to avoid lane changes with AP if there's a semi or anybody towing 2 lanes over. It would be nice if you could just tap the signal stalk and do a manual lane change, and have it give you a 3 second window or whatever to cross lanes without AP disengaging. That's what my other cars do... If I tap the signal stalk, the driver's assists stays active, but it gives me a window of a few seconds to change lanes.
With regards to AP, I know what you mean. I almost always try to avoid lane changes with AP if there's a semi or anybody towing 2 lanes over. It would be nice if you could just tap the signal stalk and do a manual lane change, and have it give you a 3 second window or whatever to cross lanes without AP disengaging. That's what my other cars do... If I tap the signal stalk, the driver's assists stays active, but it gives me a window of a few seconds to change lanes.
New flash: FSD and AP are junk in plenty of real-world scenarios. This is one of them.
The DRIVER is always 100% responsible for the vehicle.
Cars should NEVER pass on the right so I'm not sure why the tailgater is upset. If you signaled that you were moving over, that is the correct way. Also, as others have mentioned, AP won't do this. Lane correction and accident avoidance may but not to the point where it'll actually move back. It usually relies on the side cameras to detect cars. So either the large truck was merging into your lane or you were going too close to the 2nd lane on your right perhaps?
The truck was not merging nor did I move too close to the truck. I started to move into the lane and auto pilot suddenly placed the truck into the lane I was moving into instead of two lanes over where it actually was. My car then moved back into the path of a car that was accelerating to pass me thinking I was moving over. He hit the brakes and I overrode AP and made the lane change.
I think the point many are making is that it's important to understand the limitations of any tech - including autopilot - but also to be conginzant and aware of what will happen in certain scenarios. In this case with an impatient driver wanting to pass, the risk of the car not making the lane change smoothly or of aborting the lane change altogether is a risk that could have been anticipated. When things work 98% of the time, we start to believe that they'll work 100% of the time, and this is when we get bit in the ass. AP is a cool feature, but I always maintain a healthy level of distrust in how it will handle fringe scenarios like this one. In heavy traffic where cars are moving at highway speeds it's better to narrow your scope of expectations for Tesla autopilot and rely only on the TACC. Lane changes require a lot of human awareness and observation - not to mention that those around you believe that a human is driving which adds another layer of complexity. The OP isn't wrong.. but autopilot clearly has limitations.. and as users of this technology we're solely responsible for knowing these limitations and acting appropriately.
Normally I would agree with you but this specific scenario seems to be so brain dead common, AP should IMO definitely not be applying the brakes in an erratic fashion. I can certainly see it flashing a warning to the driver they may be making an unwise move, just not applying the brakes.
The selling point is that a computer can make hundreds of calculations and decisions a second, based on multiple sources of data (the cameras, the ultrasonic sensors), and apply actions that would typically take a human longer to process and make. In this instance, its mistakenly decided something is in the right lane and applied the brakes, which by all accounts is sudden and fairly drastic.
The better outcome would have been the flash the warning to the driver and made some noise, so the driver would mirror and right shoulder check for a clear lane (and glance at the car proximity graphic on the tablet), before making the lane change, and not applying the brakes. Again just an opinion, and if there errors in my understanding of the end to end scenario then happy to be corrected.
I do like your point about understanding the limits of the technology and setting appropriate expectations, it's completely fair.
I'm not arguing that it's not a software failure - it is. More specifically it's a result of software immaturity. One would think that the AP computer would recognize the presence of a car following closely and limit braking... or figure out that the truck wasn't in fact in the next lane over.. but it's ultimately making these decisions based on what a programmer coded in and the AI has learned. And what the programmer coded / AI learned clearly hasn't yet matched all the scenarios that the car will encounter out on the road. That's why it's called "beta" and why we all need to remember watch AP like a parent with a child next to a cliff.
AP is certainly not sold as a beta feature in their suite of driving aids.
Autopilot and Full Self-Driving Capability | Tesla Support
Autopilot is an advanced driver assistance system that enhances safety and convenience behind the wheel. When used properly, Autopilot reduces your overall workload as a driver. Learn more about Autopilot.
Also re: vehicle behind and limit extreme braking - yes but it's biasing against front impact it would appear, which is the correct bias IMO. Someone following too closely...yeah that's on them.
To be clear, my car did not brake suddenly. Instead, it started to move over, car behind accelerated to pass, and then my car thinking the truck was in my lane when it wasn’t, attempted to move back into the original lane causing the passing car to brake sharply. I jerked the wheel to the right and executed the lane change myself. Honestly, there was plenty of room and this was not a “fringe” maneuver as someone suggested. The phantom truck appearing in my lane was the problem. I was in control the entire time.
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