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Scary Experience with AP2.0 Autosteer on the Highway

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by VeryOrange, Apr 27, 2017.

  1. VeryOrange

    VeryOrange New Member

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    Hello,
    I have a 60D with AP2- I tried using autosteer on the highway last Monday (3 days after the update was released to my car), and had one of the worst/scariest experiences I've ever had while driving and wanted to see if anyone else has had anything similar with their vehicle? I was driving on a major highway, thankfully at an offpeak hour with few cars around, in the left lane at ~75mph. Turned on autosteer (max speed of 80)- and was driving along (with my hands on the steering wheel) when I noticed it wasn't taking a left curve/turn on the road and drifting into the adjacent lane. So I engaged the steering wheel to deactivate autosteer and to make the turn myself. As soon as I did this, all hell broke loose. Basically the steering wheel jerked all the way to the left, veering me inches from the barrier- and then as I tried to straighten the wheel it jerked me all the way to the right, across 3 lanes of traffic...and then back let to the barrier, back across traffic, and again 5 or 6 times. Fortunately the cars around me saw what was happening and slammed on their brakes, so I was able to also slam on my brakes after about 5 seconds and pulled the car over to the side of the road. Of course I called tesla immediately and this is what I was told:
    1) the car is not able to make that turn (a pretty mild curve) at 80mph- known issue with AP2. Fine- not a big deal to me- I had my hands on the wheel and was ready to assume control of the car in such scenarios.
    2) the car functioned normally after that- any/all events following disengagement of the autosteer were due to "driver input/error". Obviously, this is the part I have a problem with- I think myself (and any other sober/adult driver would never perform the 90 degree jerks on the steering wheel at 80mph 6 times in a row -- that is just not a logical explanation. Clearly something malfunctioned, no idea what, and not sure if it's system-wide or specific to my vehicle. But I wanted to see if anyone else has had anything at all similar happen to them?
    Tesla service told me that there was no malfunction-- and that I should just 'try again' and call them if it happens again...........?!?
     
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  2. Haxster

    Haxster Member

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    Scary for sure!

    You may not be the first.

    The others…may they in peace. :(
     
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  3. TechVP

    TechVP Active Poster

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    For your own personal safety & backup liability, perhaps a dashcam is in order. I keep wondering if I should leave my audio recording on.. you illustrate a good case for me doing so. Thanks for the explanation.
     
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  4. Az_Rael

    Az_Rael Supporting Member

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    I would try to recreate that on a wide empty rural road. The problem seemed to occur when you disengaged using the steering wheel. So I would try to disengage at a lower speed on a wide empty road and see if it jerks the steering around like that again. And set up a Go pro or other camera with your steering wheel and the windshield view visible.

    Then if you can recreate it, call Tesla again for the logs and tell them you have video as well.

    Someone else here complained about the lane departure feature causing a similar less dramatic result so that might be a culprit as well. (When they would change lanes, the car wouldnt steer correctly) Scary Lane Assist
     
  5. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    I don't understand why you keep using "it", when you mean "I".

    It takes caress and practice to deactivate AP without it "kicking" (for lack of a better term). When you do deactivate it hard, you'll push yourself hard one way. And as a human driver, your natural reaction will be to compensate your mistake, by over-correcting.



    It's definitely possible something is wrong with your car, but are you 100% sure that you as the driver didn't cause the oscillations by overcorrecting? At 80mph, it doesn't take much (not even close to a 90 degree jerk turn, as you said above)
     
  6. wangjue

    wangjue Member

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    I always tap the brake disengage the auto steer first.
     
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  7. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    I've had that happen twice (the side collision warning) on AP1, it produces a specific beeping sound. It doesn't just block you from going.

    Once was me next to a bus, no biggy. The second time I was driving and either changing lanes or something, and I heard/felt it kick on. It's easy enough to "overpower", but in hindsight I thought "wtf would it turn on then?"
     
  8. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    #8 Tam, Apr 27, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2017
    Sorry to hear about the experience and I am glad that you walked away unscathed.

    I doubt you can label this as a "malfunction" because Tesla would say the system is a growing toddler needing to learn better that's all.

    Like a toddler, it tried to compensate and over-compensate and not very well at all in this case.

    Until subsequent firmware updates, I guess we just have to learn which scenarios it works best and which not.

    Straight roads are great.

    Curvy roads especially at higher speed are not so much such as in this case.

    Thanks for sharing.
     
  9. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.34 2448cfc

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    How come you didn't just disable autopilot immediately instead of letting it swerve back and forth 5 or 6 more times? If I'm on autopilot and it starts going wrong, I disable it within inches or feet of it crossing a line. I don't understand why you'd let it go back and forth across 3 lanes of traffic 6+ times.
     
  10. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    I thought s/he did:
     
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  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    I assume that Tesla reviewed the vehicle log file from your car. They would be able to tell if, after you disengaged AP by applying enough force to the steering wheel to turn it off, it was you or the car that was "jerking" the steering wheel as you described in your post.

    It sounds like Tesla is saying that the log file showed you were "jerking" the steering wheel back and forth. It also sounds like you believe the car "jerked" the steering wheel without your involvement after AP disengaged.

    Reading your post, it seems there is another disagreement between you and Tesla: you say your speed was "~75" and you were aware that Autosteer is limited to 80. You say that Tesla told you that Autosteer cannot handle turns at 80. Was Tesla saying that your speed was 80 or above?

    What software version was your car running at the time of the incident?

    Later in your post you say the car performed "90 degree jerks on the steering at 80mph 6 times in a row".

    By "90 degree" I assume you mean the steering wheel was rotated through 90 degrees of arc. At 75 or 80mph I am almost certain that much steering wheel movement would have caused the car to swerve so violently that it would have crashed even on a wide open road. You say that happened 6 times "in a row", implying over a short period of time.
     
  12. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.34 2448cfc

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    Ah...so if autosteer was disengaged, it was actually the driver who swerved back and forth across three lanes 5 or 6+ times?
     
  13. Max*

    Max* Not Banned

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    That's the way I read it, and hence my comment in post 7. I don't know why he's blaming AP for swerving back and forth. Once you overcorrect at 80mph, it's REALLY hard to get the car straight again.
     
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  14. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    That seems likely but the OP denies that is what happened.
     
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  15. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    This sounds like a classic case of a driver-applied over correction at highway speeds, and stability control was trying to save the day while fighting with subsequent driver overcorrections in the opposite direction....

    If you jerk the wheel hard when disconnecting AP and applying a correction, it's pretty easy to destabilize a 4500lb car traveling at highway speeds.
     
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  16. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2017.34 2448cfc

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    Yeah. My comments were kind of rhetorical. I watch a lot of dashcam videos and it's amazing how many people over-correct one way and then the other and lose control.
     
  17. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    I agree with the assessment as indicated by ecarfan and Max*.

    When the driver took over the steering wheel, you would hear an disengagement alarm "Ding-ding" and you are on your own from that point.

    Some may not realize that you are now on manual mode because of the stressful emergency but human needs to do a good job at steering like NOW!

    Tesla should have a log documented for you.

    If you want to document the system's status yourself, you might as well install a dashcam with voice recording and learn what the different alarm sounds mean.

    For example:

    1) Disengagement alarm "DING-ding"
    2) Unsuccessful activation alarm "cricket"
    3) Engagement successful alarm "ding-DING"

     
  18. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    I think it's similar to the case of Pennsylvania Turnpike when the driver blamed AP1 for swerving into guard rails but the log showed that the Autopilot was automatically disengaged when the driver took over the steering wheel and the driver over-corrected the steering which landed the car on the side.
     
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  19. Vad42

    Vad42 Member

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    I have AP1. At least 3 times disengaging via turning of the wheel, caused a very jerky reaction with going way over the line to one side. Once was really scary. Definitely over corrected at lest 2-3 times back and forth. Scared the hell out of my wife.

    Since then I've been very conscious to disengage via brake, but it's probably more natural (but clearly more dangerous) to want to do it via the wheel, especially i f the problem is direction not speed.
     
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  20. MS16

    MS16 Member

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    GM's approach with Super Cruise seems to address issues like this. GM geo-mapped the 160,000 miles of highway where the system will work. They also tested every one of the 160,000 miles with a Super Cruise equipped car to validate the system before putting it on sale.
     
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