SCE Rate Plans changing 3/1/19?

[power.saver]

The hours are drastically different than TOU-D-B. For TOU-D-Prime, on peak and mid peak are 4-9pm (mid on weekends in summer) off peak is everything else. Super off peak doesn't apply because it is the same as off peak.

This is the structure:

 

[mociaf9]

Seems like pretty much everyone with solar (but no storage) in SCE territory should turn their panels to the west to minimize the pain of the new rates.

 

[gilscales]

The hours are drastically different than TOU-D-B. For TOU-D-Prime, on peak and mid peak are 4-9pm (mid on weekends in summer) off peak is everything else. Super off peak doesn't apply because it is the same as off peak.

This is the structure:

View attachment 379798

WOW, that is a problem for Solar, I do not have Solar at the moment and now it would appear less attractive to get, also noticed no free lunch on the weekends anymore like TOU-D-B

 

[MIT_S60]

TOU-D (Option PRIME)

Customer Charge - $12 per month

Summer Season - On-Peak $0.36, Mid-Peak $0.26 Off-Peak $0.13

Winter Season - Mid-Peak $0.33 Off-Peak $0.12 Super-Off-Peak $0.12

VS. my current TOU-D-B rate

Customer Charge - $16 per month

Summer Season - On-Peak $0.37, Mid-Peak $0.17 Off-Peak $0.12

Winter Season - Mid-Peak $0.25 Off-Peak $0.16 Super-Off-Peak $0.13

Well the rate changes do not appear as drastic as I first thought as @Need has pointed out but I guess it all depends on the hours of each tier and whether it has shifted significantly or is largely the same, I guess we will see more when the Prime rate is added to the calculator.

The hours are drastically different than TOU-D-B. For TOU-D-Prime, on peak and mid peak are 4-9pm (mid on weekends in summer) off peak is everything else. Super off peak doesn't apply because it is the same as off peak.

This is the structure:

View attachment 379798

Where are you getting the rates and times for the PRIME rate?

 

[Vern Padgett]

The hours are drastically different than TOU-D-B. For TOU-D-Prime, on peak and mid peak are 4-9pm (mid on weekends in summer) off peak is everything else. Super off peak doesn't apply because it is the same as off peak.

This is the structure:

View attachment 379798

Are you with Southern Calif Edison? Or DWP? or What?

 

[gilscales]

Where are you getting the rates and times for the PRIME rate?

Post #3 this thread

 

[BrokerDon]

Congratulations to your son and daughter-in-law. Some thoughts:
0. May be cheaper for them to shop for solar independently, but probably not a choice since this is probably mandated by new homes. If getting from Lennar, with these new rate plans also better to shift the panels to face west instead of south. Less actual kwh, but at advantageous rates. The home roof design in the doc does appear to have some east-west roof. Prob not something the builder will accommodate, but doesn't hurt to ask.

1. The answer to this was in the numbers you gave. Either pay $8000 upfront for 25-30+ years or production, or pay 4809 x $0,15 = $720/year for typically 20 year PPA. The latter is financially like taking a 20-year loan on the $8000 at 7% interest, i.e. a bad deal since they can probably roll $8K into the mortgage at 4.5% for cheaper, and they'll own the panels outright and free power from years 21 onwards. So either way pay upfront with cash or rolled into the mortgage (and that's a decision of whether they think they can invest $8K at better than 4.5% return or not).
On top of this, the reference rate will probably be higher by May due to these new plans, and then there's the awful escalator clause that ratchets the rates up 2-3% every year of the 20-year PPA, making it truly a bad deal at 10%+ interest. PPA only applies to those who don't have cash, and can't finance through a home mortgage.

2. I'm not familiar with SCE rates since I'm in PG&E, but if they are solar but no EV, the answer may be different than folks here who are solar + EV, or EV only. Riverside will certainly have lots of summer A/C use during those 4-9 or 5-8 peak periods. Regardless, they should probably buy a smart thermostat that will crank the temp down before 4 pm when they are not home, when the electricity is cheaper, so the house is pre-cooled by the time they roll home at 5 or 6 pm ...

3. Most likely if they are closing after March 1, they cannot select a plan that is grandfathered already. I think for Solar no EV, they have to choose 4-9 or 5-8, but cannot choose PRIME unless they also get an EV? I'm inferring this from similar plans in PG&E territory.

Thanks for your very thoughtful answer. Our kids house they're buying this week is 100% complete including their 100% south facing SunStreet LG 9 X 320W solar panel system which was designed to produce 70% of their new home's power... so hopefully the new SCE PRIME rate won't change much.

I agree PPAs make sense IF you don't have cash or cheap financing for your solar system... so they're just paying cash. EASY and simple.

Their new Lennar "Everything's Included" smart home has a smart thermostat and is designed with super energy efficient design and construction: https://www.lennar.com/images/com/f...reCreekHomeAutomationFeaturesListFlyerv04.pdf We have Ecobee smart thermostats on our SoCal home so know how to program and operate them for maximum efficiency / low cost.

Good idea to find out if they can go PRIME since they have an EV.

Again, thanks for your time and insights. We really appreciate it!

 

[Need]

The hours are drastically different than TOU-D-B. For TOU-D-Prime, on peak and mid peak are 4-9pm (mid on weekends in summer) off peak is everything else. Super off peak doesn't apply because it is the same as off peak.

This is the structure:

View attachment 379798

With the rates listed in a table like that, you can see how screwed the NEM Solar producers will be. I have West facing array. Currently with TOU-D-A, 100% of my solar production would be at $0.26 to $0.46 per kwh with about 50% at the higher rate. With the Prime rate, 8% (Winter) and 20% (Summer) will get at the higher rate of $0.33 to $0.36 per kwh; the rest of the 80% to 92% will be at $0.12 to $0.13.

With a quick calculation, my solar production in $ amount will be cut in half.

 

[Need]

On the good side, it is cheap A/C during the day for everyone! Run your dish washer and washer and electric dryer at 1pm! No problem.. it is the cheapest rate. It doesn't make any sense to me.. what happened to high demand period?

 

[power.saver]

The high demand period has shifted to 4-9pm due to all the solar production in the state. There is actually more solar than can be used in the daytime hours, so the power plants cut back. Then after the sun sets, they have to ramp up all those power plants to meet demand, and this ramp is from 4-9pm, hence the "new" high demand period.

 

[MIT_S60]

The high demand period has shifted to 4-9pm due to all the solar production in the state. There is actually more solar than can be used in the daytime hours, so the power plants cut back. Then after the sun sets, they have to ramp up all those power plants to meet demand, and this ramp is from 4-9pm, hence the "new" high demand period.

That makes sense for shifting the hours back, but what about the nighttime super off peak no longer being considered as such? Is there more demand at night than demand during the day after solar is accounted for?

 

[gilscales]

That makes sense for shifting the hours back, but what about the nighttime super off peak no longer being considered as such? Is there more demand at night than demand during the day after solar is accounted for?

No, just more money wanted!

 

[THX723]

With the rates listed in a table like that, you can see how screwed the NEM Solar producers will be. I have West facing array. Currently with TOU-D-A, 100% of my solar production would be at $0.26 to $0.46 per kwh with about 50% at the higher rate. With the Prime rate, 8% (Winter) and 20% (Summer) will get at the higher rate of $0.33 to $0.36 per kwh; the rest of the 80% to 92% will be at $0.12 to $0.13.

With a quick calculation, my solar production in $ amount will be cut in half.

Imagine if they were south-facing.

No, just more money wanted!

Sad, but true.

 

[Need]

Imagine if they were south-facing.

I think I got lucky. My house only got East or West facing roof... and East side got a mountain.

 

[THX723]

I think I got lucky. My house only got East or West facing roof... and East side got a mountain.

I unfortunately have a dead south facing roof. There are some west facing surface, but are shadowed by a row of tall trees.

 

[mociaf9]

With this rate structure, people with south facing panels will be much more incentivized to add storage. But, it likely still won't be enough to get to ROI within a reasonable amount of time for most people.

 

[andy92782]

Funny.... Condo owners like me who have zero chance of ever installing rooftop solar stand to benefit from the Prime plan. And the fact I can crank up my AC all day long until 4pm without being fleeced is icing on the cake. That'll work out well for those days I'm working from home. No need to seek out Starbucks...

 

[Need]

I am thinking this TOU-Prime will be cheaper for most people (who works from home or have someone stays at the home during daytime) who are currently on Tiers plan. I will probably switch my mom to it once the comparison tool comes out for me to check.

 

[dethman]

I hope battery storage gets a lot cheaper in about 3 years when my grandfathered tou d a runs out, charge during the day and shift the 4p-9p usage to storage use.

 

[Need]

I hope battery storage gets a lot cheaper in about 3 years when my grandfathered tou d a runs out, charge during the day and shift the 4p-9p usage to storage use.

It has to be a LOT cheaper to make sense. Lets say you run something 1000W continuously for 5 full hours of peak rate every day, you will only save about $400 per year by shifting.