SCE: TOU-D 4-9pm or TOU-D Prime

[Carbonfiber]

Still trying to figure out which rate plan is better for me. Hopefully someone can chime in with their experience. I have solar panels and will be charging my ev 10-12 hours daily.

TOU-D Prime is pretty straight forward. I am confused about the baseline credits for TOU D 4-9. Are those credits enough to be a better rate plan for me when I’m charging every night?

 

[skepticcyclist]

Since you are going to use the grid a lot to charge your car and do not have battery backup, the Prime is probably best for. You will pay much less during the off peak charging time. Solar charging 10 hours a day is the best scenario and most of those hours are not going to be anywhere near peak production. Your optimal solar production will only be for about 2-5 hours of the day under ideal weather conditions in the summer months.

The credits in the D plan are additional credits applied to your bill for what they determine to be your basic allocated use (basic electricity needs.) It is currently $0.07 per kWh. So if they determine you basic monthly need is 200 kWh, then they will credit you 200 x $0.07 = $14.00 for the month.

Depending on how much your solar produces, your electric car charging will most likely exceed those monthly allowances by a lot. So you would have to determine if you would end up paying more to charge your car at $0.17/kWh for the Prime or $0.27/kWh for the D plan. Since you will be paying $0.10 more per kWh with D after the credit, you would have to see if the amount of energy you use at the 10 additional cents above your allowance is more than the 7 cent per kWh of credit you get for your allowed kWh use. In most cases with car charging and no battery time shifting, the Prime plan is the better option.

 

[Carbonfiber]

Since you are going to use the grid a lot to charge your car and do not have battery backup, the Prime is probably best for. You will pay much less during the off peak charging time. Solar charging 10 hours a day is the best scenario and most of those hours are not going to be anywhere near peak production. Your optimal solar production will only be for about 2-5 hours of the day under ideal weather conditions in the summer months.

The credits in the D plan are additional credits applied to your bill for what they determine to be your basic allocated use (basic electricity needs.) It is currently $0.07 per kWh. So if they determine you basic monthly need is 200 kWh, then they will credit you 200 x $0.07 = $14.00 for the month.

Depending on how much your solar produces, your electric car charging will most likely exceed those monthly allowances by a lot. So you would have to determine if you would end up paying more to charge your car at $0.17/kWh for the Prime or $0.27/kWh for the D plan. Since you will be paying $0.10 more per kWh with D after the credit, you would have to see if the amount of energy you use at the 10 additional cents above your allowance is more than the 7 cent per kWh of credit you get for your allowed kWh use. In most cases with car charging and no battery time shifting, the Prime plan is the better option.

thanks for sharing that. My system is producing about 33-36 kwh a day.

 

[tomuo]

thanks for sharing that. My system is producing about 33-36 kwh a day.

SCE is now requiring users to be on TOU-D-PRIME to get the SCIP incentive (if you have batteries, which I now see you don't)

Using solar as it's generated gives you the best effective rate, so I recommend charging at noon, and you'll benefit from the D plan's per-kWh credit to reduce the pain of the peak time + insufficient solar charges.

and your rates maybe a few cents lower than SCE if you use a CCA.

 

[Dukeybootie]

For those of you with TOU-D-PRIME, given the $0.40 daily basic rate, does that mean you are paying ~$12 per month minimum no matter what?

 

[idealsol]

Yes

 

[Dukeybootie]

Hmm...I wonder if it is possible to get below that $12/mo with TOU-D-4-9pm or TOU-D-5-8pm. There are so many factors involved it is near impossible to estimate without actually trying it out.

One other question that I haven't seen a clear answer to -- can you reduce the $0.35 minimum daily charge in TOU-D-4-9pm with baseline credit to reduce the monthly bill further? I realize it is not a lot of $ we are talking about, just curious.

 

[idealsol]

SCE has a rate comparison tool
if you are NOT already on a TOU plan you can use the tool to see if the TOU plans will benefit you

Rate Plan Comparison Tool

The Rate Plan Comparison Tool can give you a personalized comparison between your current plan and other plan options description

www.sce.com

 

[Dukeybootie]

I get an error message when trying to use the comparison tool. Regardless, I added more panels and a third PW in the past 6 months so the comparison tool wouldn't have enough data to work with for me.

 

[skepticcyclist]

For those of you with TOU-D-PRIME, given the $0.40 daily basic rate, does that mean you are paying ~$12 per month minimum no matter what?

Nope. Never once paid that amount with Prime. My bill is mostly around $10. This month was $7 and last month was $5

 

[skepticcyclist]

Nope. Never once paid that amount with Prime. My bill is mostly around $10. This month was $7 and last month was $5

With that said though, I will do the comparison after 12 months to see if any of the other options are better for me.

 

[jjrandorin]

Nope. Never once paid that amount with Prime. My bill is mostly around $10. This month was $7 and last month was $5

When did you put in your solar, though (are you on NEM 1 or NEM 2)?

 

[skepticcyclist]

When did you put in your solar, though (are you on NEM 1 or NEM 2)?

Got the system up and running at the end of November. Only had it 8 months. I'm on NEM 2.0

 

[Tim-in-CA]

SCE is now requiring users to be on TOU-D-PRIME to get the SCIP incentive (if you have batteries, which I now see you don't)

Using solar as it's generated gives you the best effective rate, so I recommend charging at noon, and you'll benefit from the D plan's per-kWh credit to reduce the pain of the peak time + insufficient solar charges.

and your rates maybe a few cents lower than SCE if you use a CCA.

Do you have a link showing this requirement? I was assigned TOU D 4-9 by SCE. I have PV and 2xPW (PTO should be imminent) Thanks!

 

[tomuo]

Do you have a link showing this requirement? I was assigned TOU D 4-9 by SCE. I have PV and 2xPW (PTO should be imminent) Thanks!

It was in an email from my installer (which was not Tesla direct), they submitted the final SGIP application concurrent with PTO.

Tthis page seems to be accurate:

A Definitive Guide to the Updated SGIP Incentive Program (2020 Edition)

www.energytoolbase.com

• Residential customers are now required to be on a TOU rate with a peak period starting after 4pm, and with a peak vs. off-peak differential of at least 1.69 to 1. Several existing residential TOU rates qualify, including PG&E’s EV-2, SCE’s TOU-D-PRIME, and SDG&E’s TOU-DR1.

The original SGIP documentation just says

Fulfill either of the two following conditions:
Option A: The Host Customer is on a TOU tarriff . ..

So it's the differential that changed in 2020, and now only D-Prime is eligible within SCE.
But, the way I read it, this was part of the re-funding of SGIP for small installations, and otherwise we'd probably have missed out on SGIP all together.

 

[Tim-in-CA]

It was in an email from my installer (which was not Tesla direct), they submitted the final SGIP application concurrent with PTO.

Tthis page seems to be accurate:

A Definitive Guide to the Updated SGIP Incentive Program (2020 Edition)

www.energytoolbase.com

The original SGIP documentation just says


So it's the differential that changed in 2020, and now only D-Prime is eligible within SCE.
But, the way I read it, this was part of the re-funding of SGIP for small installations, and otherwise we'd probably have missed out on SGIP all together.

Thanks ... don't know why they make this soooooo complicated. Tesla never mentioned the new TOU restriction, guess I'll find out when I get PTO.

 

[skepticcyclist]

Do you have a link showing this requirement? I was assigned TOU D 4-9 by SCE. I have PV and 2xPW (PTO should be imminent) Thanks!

Do you have an SGIP agreement?

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Do you have an SGIP agreement?

Not yet, still waiting on PTO. Per Tesla, they won't submit until I have PTO. I don't meet the resiliency requirement but was told that as the steps open up, that there would be rebate available. Not sure if any of this was/is actually true.

 

[jjrandorin]

Thanks ... don't know why they make this soooooo complicated. Tesla never mentioned the new TOU restriction, guess I'll find out when I get PTO.

So, there are normally two different things people are talking about, when they are talking about "SGIP". They both have the same name, from the same agency, but have different requirements.

One of them is the regular SGIP program, that has a sliding scale of incentives that have decreased over time. That one has small scale (<2 PWs) and Large scale ( 3+ powerwalls). Tesla itself does not submit at all under large scale under the regular SGIP program, and has stated that they are over subscriped for the small scale incentive.

This program is only available through some third party installer companies that have not burned through their allotment, yet.

Another thing called "SGIP" is the SGIP equity and resiliency program, which basically will pay for batteries for people who live in specific impacted areas, and have specific impacted needs (X number of power safety shutoffs, medical baseline, etc). This is a completely different set of requirements than the one above and may have different stipulations.

Most times here, people mix these up. Based on my reading here, I would guess that @tomuo is talking about equity and resiliency.

 

[jjrandorin]

Not yet, still waiting on PTO. Per Tesla, they won't submit until I have PTO. I don't meet the resiliency requirement but was told that as the steps open up, that there would be rebate available. Not sure if any of this was/is actually true.

Dont plan on getting any SGIP from tesla... because there is a long line of people ahead of you that they would need to go through to get to you. For example, my install was January of 2020, and I was told the same thing. I got a notice from tesla in october last year which I promptly responded to, but nothing since, including me trying to follow up with tesla on it.

Of course, I purchased through tesla with the understanding that I would likely not get sgip through them, and the price when I looked at it through tesla was such that, going through any third party would have REQUIRED I get the sgip incentive to have the same price tesla was offering without the sgip being guaranteed, so if I get it, its just "found money". I dont expect to get it, though, and I suggest you have the same expectation.

(non equity and resiliency SGIP).