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SCE: TOU-D 4-9pm or TOU-D Prime

dlevens

Member
Apr 14, 2021
37
3
Alta Loma
You need to be very careful to switch out of the grandfather rate. You maybe saving like $15 to $20 a month on basic charges, but it is possible that you could go into the negative at the end of the year. Currently you are selling kwh back at a much higher rate with the grandfathered plan. So if you are charging at night at the lowest rate, you are selling 2x/3x the majority of the usage rate as charging takes a big chunk. You are selling high and buying low.

You said you were like -$73 on your first month? My monthly bill is usually -$100 to $-200 a month. My yearly bill for the last 3 years were around -$1700 to -$2000. Currently the SCE rate compare tool is not working for my account (not sure why), when I did it back in 2019, it shows that if I were to switch from my grandfathered TOU-D-A plan to one of the newer ones, I would be paying about $900 to $1000 more per year.

Your July bill shows that you sold 403 kWh but used 471 kWh. So if your selling rate is the same as your usage rate which is around $0.27/kWh, you will be in the negative even if you completely not use any electricity between 4pm and 9pm which has a even higher usage rate of $0.43 and you are not going to be generating anything between 4pm and 9pm.
TOU-D-A is about the best plan out there. Only 0.03 per day charge, you get the baseline credit and you have low super off peak and high on peak rates.

Could you share your bill details? I am interested in your Daily Basic Charge, Minimum Daily Charge, NBCs Charges, Baseline Credit and whether or not any of them come out of your energy credits or if they are billed to you monthly.

Going to call SCE to see if I can cancel leaving my grandfathered plan, does not go into affect until end of this month so hoping to can cancel the change 🤞
 
I don't know. That is just what I am paying. To show even more proof, here is my July bill
I figured it out. My bill is reduced about $10/month for some smart energy program credit. Don't know what that is or why I have it.
 

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Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
3,044
2,352
Rancho Cucamonga
TOU-D-A is about the best plan out there. Only 0.03 per day charge, you get the baseline credit and you have low super off peak and high on peak rates.

Could you share your bill details? I am interested in your Daily Basic Charge, Minimum Daily Charge, NBCs Charges, Baseline Credit and whether or not any of them come out of your energy credits or if they are billed to you monthly.

Going to call SCE to see if I can cancel leaving my grandfathered plan, does not go into affect until end of this month so hoping to can cancel the change 🤞
Yeah I will be crying if they take away my TOU-D-A.

This is my July bill. It is the lowest credit I got a for a long time because I just started going back to the office since March 2020 and it is hot everyday so AC is on full 24/7.

Delivery charges - Cost to deliver your electricity
Basic charge 30 days x $0.02400 $0.72
Nonbypassable charges (NBCs)
CTC, NDC, PPPC 1,153 kWh x $0.01846 $21.28
DWR bond charge 1,153 kWh x $0.00580 $6.69
Subtotal of your new charges $28.69
State tax 429 kWh x $0.00030 $0.13
Your new charges $28.82

Your rate: TOU-D-A
Billing period: 06/16/21 to 07/15/21 (30 days)
Delivery charges - Cost to deliver your electricity
Baseline credit 429 kWh x -$0.07299 -$31.31
Energy-Summer
On peak -46 kWh x $0.34821 -$16.02
Off peak -200 kWh x $0.24239 -$48.48
Super off peak 675 kWh x $0.07258 $48.99
Generation charges - Cost to generate your electricity
SCE

Energy-Summer
On peak -46 kWh x $0.23691 -$10.90
Off peak -200 kWh x $0.08102 -$16.20
Super off peak 675 kWh x $0.06262 $42.27

Energy Charge Total -$31.65

I have the same size system as yours (12KW). If it is not for the baseline credit, I would have been at $0 this month. And if I switch to one of the new plan, I would be at $100+ this month.
 

dlevens

Member
Apr 14, 2021
37
3
Alta Loma
Yeah I will be crying if they take away my TOU-D-A.

This is my July bill. It is the lowest credit I got a for a long time because I just started going back to the office since March 2020 and it is hot everyday so AC is on full 24/7.

Delivery charges - Cost to deliver your electricity
Basic charge 30 days x $0.02400 $0.72
Nonbypassable charges (NBCs)
CTC, NDC, PPPC 1,153 kWh x $0.01846 $21.28
DWR bond charge 1,153 kWh x $0.00580 $6.69
Subtotal of your new charges $28.69
State tax 429 kWh x $0.00030 $0.13
Your new charges $28.82

Your rate: TOU-D-A
Billing period: 06/16/21 to 07/15/21 (30 days)
Delivery charges - Cost to deliver your electricity
Baseline credit 429 kWh x -$0.07299 -$31.31
Energy-Summer
On peak -46 kWh x $0.34821 -$16.02
Off peak -200 kWh x $0.24239 -$48.48
Super off peak 675 kWh x $0.07258 $48.99
Generation charges - Cost to generate your electricity
SCE

Energy-Summer
On peak -46 kWh x $0.23691 -$10.90
Off peak -200 kWh x $0.08102 -$16.20
Super off peak 675 kWh x $0.06262 $42.27

Energy Charge Total -$31.65

I have the same size system as yours (12KW). If it is not for the baseline credit, I would have been at $0 this month. And if I switch to one of the new plan, I would be at $100+ this month.
Bummer so the baseline credit is applied to energy credits and not the monthly charges. What killed you is the NBCs.

I'm really regretting leaving my grandfathered plan, first person I spoke to said they cannot cancel the change, such BS. Waiting another hour on hold as when I asked to speak to a manager they transferred me and 10 minutes later some odd tone and call drop :mad:
 
Last edited:

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
3,044
2,352
Rancho Cucamonga
Bummer so the baseline credit is applied to energy credits and not the monthly charges. What killed you is the NBCs.

I'm really regretting leaving my grandfathered plan, first person I spoke to said they cannot cancel the change, such BS. Waiting another hour on hold as when I asked to speak to a manager they transferred me and 10 minutes later some odd tone and call drop :mad:
Well the NBC would be the same no matter which plan I switch to unless I could go to NEM 1.0! $28 was the highest I have to pay in the last 2 years. I think my normal bill is $13 to $18 a month.

I think you will be fine or maybe a little better off if your July bill represent your typical usage. My August bill is usually the worst one and July/Sept the next 2. All the other months I have big credits without using the A/C 24/7. It looks like in July you will save $20 on basic charges, and the year-to-date may go to a positive number. So I think you may expect positive numbers in your June/July/Aug/Sept bills and rest of the years negative. Your monthly payment would go down by like $20 a month? So you may end up ahead provided you are not using more energy like building a pool or buy another EV.
 
Looks like you enrolled a smart thermostat Southern California Edison - SCE Smart Energy Program

Wow, how are you using so little energy and how are you generating back to the grid on all 3 tiers?
Little? I have a 5.0 kw solar array. Because of our pool and AC, this time of year our house uses about 30-40 kWh per day. That’s twice as much as what we use in the winter. Winter house consumption is about 15-20 kWh per day.

I don’t even know how it’s possible to use more than that.

Also, keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of houses in CA us gas for just about all their appliances, including ours: Oven/range, water heater, furnace, drier.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dlevens

Member
Apr 14, 2021
37
3
Alta Loma
Little? I have a 50 kw solar array. Because of our pool and AC, this time of year our house uses about 30-40 kWh per day. That’s twice as much as what we use in the winter. Winter house consumption is about 15-20 kWh per day.

I don’t even know how it’s possible to use more than that.

Also, keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of houses in CA us gas for just about all their appliances, including ours: Oven/range, water heater, furnace, drier.
50 kw 😲

Maybe I am reading your screenshots wrong, it looks like you only used 144kWh from the grid for the whole month as that is what they used to calculate your NBCs. For me my NBCs was based off 481kWh grid usage or 4x your usage.

You seem to have also earned credit during on peak, mid peak and off peak, which means you are sending more to the grid than you are using for all time frames. So you are sending more excess energy during the day than you use all night long. Do you have like 10 PowerWalls or something? Impressive numbers.
 
Last edited:

dlevens

Member
Apr 14, 2021
37
3
Alta Loma
Well the NBC would be the same no matter which plan I switch to unless I could go to NEM 1.0! $28 was the highest I have to pay in the last 2 years. I think my normal bill is $13 to $18 a month.

I think you will be fine or maybe a little better off if your July bill represent your typical usage. My August bill is usually the worst one and July/Sept the next 2. All the other months I have big credits without using the A/C 24/7. It looks like in July you will save $20 on basic charges, and the year-to-date may go to a positive number. So I think you may expect positive numbers in your June/July/Aug/Sept bills and rest of the years negative. Your monthly payment would go down by like $20 a month? So you may end up ahead provided you are not using more energy like building a pool or buy another EV.

Curious, do you have any batteries? 1153 kWh is higher than my usage before solar.

Also, I do not see the Daily min charge of 0.35 in your numbers? I assume the NBCs count towards this and so they did not charge you the $10.50 for this?
 
Last edited:
I figured it out. My bill is reduced about $10/month for some smart energy program credit. Don't know what that is or why I have it.
i have mine reduced as well each month by a small amount (always slightly different ?) for being enrolled in nest thermo program / rush hour rewards .. you can override it so not nearly as draconian as @jjrandorin old AC "magic box" program 🤣
despite factoring in this discount im still not clear on my bill so i will post later if others wish to dissect it
 

dlevens

Member
Apr 14, 2021
37
3
Alta Loma
i have mine reduced as well each month by a small amount (always slightly different ?) for being enrolled in nest thermo program / rush hour rewards .. you can override it so not nearly as draconian as @jjrandorin old AC "magic box" program 🤣
despite factoring in this discount im still not clear on my bill so i will post later if others wish to dissect it
Please do, I am overly obsessed with this now, so will be happy to dissect :)
 

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
3,044
2,352
Rancho Cucamonga
Curious, do you have any batteries? 1153 kWh is higher than my usage before solar.
No I don't have batteries. 1153 kWh is quite low for me actually. We have 2 Tesla and my commute is 135 miles round trip. That July bill does not include any of my normal commute as I only started going back to the office 2 weeks ago...

I think my normal summer usage is about 2000 kWh. I have to go back to old bill to check. That's not really high. I think I read that normal household uses about 30 kWh per day. So I am at 67 kWh per day with charging of 2 EVs in summer with A/C running.
 
50 kw 😲

Maybe I am reading your screenshots wrong, it looks like you only used 144kWh from the grid for the whole month as that is what they used to calculate your NBCs. For me my NBCs was based off 481kWh grid usage or 4x your usage.

You seem to have also earned credit during on peak, mid peak and off peak, which means you are sending more to the grid than you are using for all time frames. So you are sending more excess energy during the day than you use all night long. Do you have like 10 PowerWalls or something? Impressive numbers.
That was a typo. It’s a 5.0 kw system. Not 50. I can produce up to 40 kWh in a day during the summer.

Only 1 PW. Peak is 4-9. This time of year the sun shines until 8:00. I have it set so I only use solar and the battery from 4-9. So excess solar goes to the grid and when there’s not enough solar, the battery supplement. From 4-8 this time of year there’s still a lot of sun during the peak period.

In the winter I change it to Cost Savings so all solar goes to the grid during peak. There maybe as little as 30 minutes of solar going to the grid during the peak from about 4:00-4:30 during the winter.

With the Prime plan the midpeak and off peak are the same
 
i have mine reduced as well each month by a small amount (always slightly different ?) for being enrolled in nest thermo program / rush hour rewards .. you can override it so not nearly as draconian as @jjrandorin old AC "magic box" program 🤣
despite factoring in this discount im still not clear on my bill so i will post later if others wish to dissect it
I didn’t even know I was enrolled. That explains why my thermostat would occasionally be set at 82. 😂. I never set it that high. I thought there was an issue with my thermostat. 😆

I would just turn it back down to 78.
 
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jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Nov 28, 2018
11,579
13,530
Riverside Co. CA
50 kw 😲

Maybe I am reading your screenshots wrong, it looks like you only used 144kWh from the grid for the whole month as that is what they used to calculate your NBCs. For me my NBCs was based off 481kWh grid usage or 4x your usage.

You seem to have also earned credit during on peak, mid peak and off peak, which means you are sending more to the grid than you are using for all time frames. So you are sending more excess energy during the day than you use all night long. Do you have like 10 PowerWalls or something? Impressive numbers.

(moderator note)

As requested by @skepticcyclist , corrected typo of 50kW system to 5.0kW system.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skepticcyclist

dlevens

Member
Apr 14, 2021
37
3
Alta Loma
I did some calculations with the following assumptions. That daily min charge is only added if NBCs are less, so for this example NBCs were higher so no added daily min charges. That NBCs, tax do not change between the plans. That baseline credit applies for all kWh pulled from grid.

If my numbers are correct, for this particular bill both TOU-D-5-8 appears the best, it is just as low as TOU-D-4-9 but would generate more credit.

Screen Shot 2021-08-04 at 5.25.29 PM.png


Screen Shot 2021-08-04 at 5.22.52 PM.png
 

Need

Active Member
Nov 22, 2017
3,044
2,352
Rancho Cucamonga
I did some calculations with the following assumptions. That daily min charge is only added if NBCs are less, so for this example NBCs were higher so no added daily min charges. That NBCs, tax do not change between the plans. That baseline credit applies for all kWh pulled from grid.

If my numbers are correct, for this particular bill both TOU-D-5-8 appears the best, it is just as low as TOU-D-4-9 but would generate more credit.

View attachment 692204

View attachment 692202
Your calculation would be good if the On Peak and Off Peak are located in the same period. But, for example, the On Peak for the TOU-D-B-SDP would be 2pm to 8pm, while the other plans would be 4pm to 9pm. On the surface, it seems like it is only 1 hour difference, but it is not. I looked at my bell curve hour by hour solar generation yesterday. The energy generated from 2pm to 4pm is 28% of my total for the day (21kWh of total 76kWh). The energy generated from 8pm to 9pm is 0%. So you basically traded in 28% of your daily credit from On Peak rate to Off Peak rate.....
 
I didn’t even know I was enrolled. That explains why my thermostat would occasionally be set at 82. 😂. I never set it that high. I thought there was an issue with my thermostat. 😆

I would just turn it back down to 78.
yea thats all program does and only at some time between 4-9pm weekdays and usually only for 2-3 hrs .. least thats only time i've seen it
 

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