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SCE: TOU-D 4-9pm or TOU-D Prime

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Currently we are using about .3 KW from the grid per day, spread in little 0.02 increments at all different time periods. Not even sure why that is happening. In June if we had PTO I estimate we would have sent 750 kW to grid and in July 400kW. I am still having a little trouble visualizing what this will mean. I can't believe I minored in math and this is baffling me. :)
I'm a math teacher and I too am baffled
 
My understanding is that SCE gives us two different accounting for solar, one billed on a monthly basis and one account balance that is settled on an annual basis. This is in no way refuting anything posted previously, just my own observation of how SCE is doing things and the way I'm explaining it to myself... dunno if it'll help anyone, but that's what posting thoughts are for, right?

Each day, SCE looks at the grid energy you use and the grid energy you generated. It looks at your net energy usage for each day during the month to see if you owe the 'minimum' daily, as a bill. The account balance is determined by the grid energy used, at the various peak/non-peak rates, and the energy you generated at the various peak/non-peak rates. This is a pure $+/-, so you can pull during off-peak, but generate during peak, and end up with a credit on your account balance.

Let's pretend a month is only 2 days, with $0.27 off-peak, $0.42 peak, $0.07 baseline (I think that's my SCE TOU-4-9)... if you pull from the grid on Monday 10kW off-peak and 2kW peak, they will charge you (10*$0.27) + (2 * $.042) - (12*$0.07). ($2.70)
If on Tuesday, you pull 10kW off-peak but generate 12kW during peak, they will charge you: 10 * $0.27 - 10 * $.07 ($2.00) for the off-peak and (12 * -$0.42) - (12 * -$.07) (-$4.20) for a total of -$2.20, plus that one day minimum daily of $0.35.
Combined, your Monday ($2.70) and Tuesday (-$2.20) would add $0.50 to your account balance plus one day of $0.35 minimum for a final $0.35 monthly bill. You pulled 20kW off-peak and -10kW peak for a net use of 10 kW that month.

If instead of just 12 generated during peak on Tuesday, you had generated 30 peak... then it would've been (30 * -$0.42) - (30 * -$0.07) or (-$10.50) while using 10kW offpeak ($2.00) your combined Monday ($2.70) and Tuesday (-$8.50) would give you a -$5.80 account balance, plus one day of $0.35 minimum for a final $0.35 bill... this carries over to next month and so forth, for the year. You pulled 20kW off-peak and -28kW peak for a net use of -8kW that month.

Now, if all 12 months were at the -$5.80 account balance, with a net use of -8kW, you would end up with a -$69.60 account balance on month 12, and a net producer of 96kW. Throughout the year, you had paid a $0.35/month bill ($4.20) From what I can tell, at that point, at the end of the annual cycle, they clear your -$69.60 account balance to $0 (it was a use-it-or-lose-it proposition) but give you the net producer rate of the month for the 96kW (which averages $0.03) so you would get a check (or bill credit) of $2.88 to start the next 12 month cycle. So, for the year, you paid $4.20 (monthly bill) and got $2.88 for the energy generated.

Unfortunately, there's also some delivery and generation charges that they split out to complicate matters on the monthly bill, but that should be the gist of it.

So, each month, I get billed around $12 for the minimum daily, but show some growingly big credit if it was sunny. That credit is used during the overcast/rainy days and it won't matter much until the end of my annual cycle. To add to the complication for California, we get a $25 bill credit in March and a $25 bill credit in October for some environmental thing... so for some months, I suddenly had a credit on the monthly bill which paid for around 2 months, in addition to the account balance credit.

Now, to do the math based on TOU-Prime of $0.17 off-peak, $0.45 peak, no baseline, $0.40 daily base charge, using the Monday 10kW offpeak, 2kW peak, Tuesday 10kW offpeak, -30kW peak, it would be something like: Monday 10*$0.17 + 2*$0.45 = $2.60 + $0.40 daily. Tuesday (10*$0.17) + (30 * -$0.45) = -$11.80 + $0.40 daily. Combined, account balance of -$9.20, net use of -8kW still, but a $0.80 bill monthly, for a final 12 month of -$110.40 account balance, net producer of 96kW. Throughout the year, you paid $0.80/month ($9.60) and got $2.88 for the energy generated.

I'm sure someone can create a spreadsheet to calculate the ROI, tipping point, and what not between the different energy usage patterns and TOU-4-9 vs TOU-PRIME... alas, I'm not that person :)

Edit: forgot to deduct the 10kW offpeak on Tuesday, that changed the numbers a little bit.
 
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Just got my first TOU-D-PRIME bill after losing TOU-D-A. Only actual charges were daily basic charge + NBCs since I ended up with a bit of energy credit.

For those who have been on PRIME for a while, do you see the NBCs (CTC, NDC, PPPC, DWR bond charge) significant exceeding the daily basic charges? It looks like they are calculated off of consumption so if I do a lot of overnight EV charging I will be paying a lot more than $12 a month just to cover NBCs. Not happy about this at all.
 

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Just got my first TOU-D-PRIME bill after losing TOU-D-A. Only actual charges were daily basic charge + NBCs since I ended up with a bit of energy credit.

For those who have been on PRIME for a while, do you see the NBCs (CTC, NDC, PPPC, DWR bond charge) significant exceeding the daily basic charges? It looks like they are calculated off of consumption so if I do a lot of overnight EV charging I will be paying a lot more than $12 a month just to cover NBCs. Not happy about this at all.
Why did you lose TOU-D-A?

I still have my TOU-D-A and my NBC are based off consumption. Pretty much all my super off peak charging get hit with the NBC. Since Prime rate is cheap also in the morning, you may want to swift your charging to start after sunrise if you can unless you need the car charged to get to work.
 
Why did you lose TOU-D-A?

I still have my TOU-D-A and my NBC are based off consumption. Pretty much all my super off peak charging get hit with the NBC. Since Prime rate is cheap also in the morning, you may want to swift your charging to start after sunrise if you can unless you need the car charged to get to work.

I was forced off when I added more panels and a third PW earlier this year. Finally took effect last month during the PTO process.
 
Why did you lose TOU-D-A?

I still have my TOU-D-A and my NBC are based off consumption. Pretty much all my super off peak charging get hit with the NBC. Since Prime rate is cheap also in the morning, you may want to swift your charging to start after sunrise if you can unless you need the car charged to get to work.

I saw that as well (NBC based off consumption) so I've shifted to using solar to charge the cars whenever I am at home during the day, and shifting to self-powered during the day outside the 4-9pm window. Wish there was an app setting for this as I am currently doing this manually. Really hating losing TOU-D-A for sure.
 
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I am attempting to create a spreadsheet calculator for the 3 TOU plans available plus 1 spot for a grandfathered plan. It is not perfect but pretty close to what my bills are showing. Can you all give it a try and see if anything is really off?

You will need to save it to your google drive or download to Excel to edit. Just fill in the yellow cells at the top. The NBCs rate should already be accurate so you should only need to fill in 6 cells from your bill.

Some things to note. Even though the rates per plan are listed the bills do not actually use these posted rates, they are supposed to be posted rate - NBCs rate, so my sheet does this calculation but I have yet to get it 100% to match my bills, I am always off few $.

Curious if anyone can make this better or more accurate, as I want to track my grandfathered TOU-D-B plan all year before switching to another plan. So far it seems TOU-D-5-8 will be the cheapest long term plan...mainly due to low daily cost, but I am concerned about my EV charging and energy credits over the full year. It may be that my TOU-D-B will win in the end purely from generating so much credit due to high peak rate and very low off peak for charging.
 
Be careful doing comparisons with data from different rate plans. Your entries are probably for TOU-D-B in terms of usage/generation during that plan's rate periods, but you are applying them to different rate periods in the other plans.

For example, your TOD-D-B on-peak generation of -166 does not apply to any of the other rate plans, but you show it as peak generation there. You need to figure out what your usage/generation was during the other rate plan periods to compare them. This usually requires that you download hourly data and sum it up for each rate plan being compared.
 
Be careful doing comparisons with data from different rate plans. Your entries are probably for TOU-D-B in terms of usage/generation during that plan's rate periods, but you are applying them to different rate periods in the other plans.

For example, your TOD-D-B on-peak generation of -166 does not apply to any of the other rate plans, but you show it as peak generation there. You need to figure out what your usage/generation was during the other rate plan periods to compare them. This usually requires that you download hourly data and sum it up for each rate plan being compared.
I understand the concern, but it is not that difficult as these plans only differ by few hours and if you have solar and battery, typically all your pull from grid would fall at night and all the plans my pull from grid fall into the last column of rate. Similar all my generation falls in the 2nd column for rate on all plans. Sure it is not going to be perfect, but I am looking for a quick ballpark. The numbers mainly change from only 3 areas, daily usage, highest rate and lowest rate.
 
I understand the concern, but it is not that difficult as these plans only differ by few hours and if you have solar and battery, typically all your pull from grid would fall at night and all the plans my pull from grid fall into the last column of rate. Similar all my generation falls in the 2nd column for rate on all plans. Sure it is not going to be perfect, but I am looking for a quick ballpark.
But it is totally inaccurate. Take TOU-D-B and TOU-D-5-8 for example. You show -165kWh for the on-peak in TOU-D-B and energy credit of -$83.45. You then put that same -165kWh into the TOU-D-5-8 rate, and claim an energy credit of -$85.10. There is no way you are going to get that.

First, the TOU-D-5-8 is only 3 hours where the TOU-D-B was 6 hours. Second, most of the -165kWh generation came before 5pm, so you will likely have very little generation from 5pm-8pm, especially in winter. This is why you must obtain your hourly usage/generation data to effectively compare rate plans.
 
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But it is totally inaccurate. Take TOU-D-B and TOU-D-5-8 for example. You show -165kWh for the on-peak in TOU-D-B and energy credit of -$83.45. You then put that same -165kWh into the TOU-D-5-8 rate, and claim an energy credit of -$85.10. There is no way you are going to get that.

First, the TOU-D-5-8 is only 3 hours where the TOU-D-B was 6 hours. Second, most of the -165kWh generation came before 5pm, so you will likely have very little generation from 5pm-8pm, especially in winter. This is why you must obtain your hourly usage/generation data to effectively compare rate plans.
Fair point.

*UPDATED* after checking my tesla app

I would think worst case difference is ~3 hours (per day), in most cases it is 1 hour difference between the rates, I am typically fully charged on my batteries by 2pm and I am sending to the grid heavily until around 6:30 from 12pm to 4pm and then trickle down till around 7ish, so difference would be around 1.5 hours off per day. I will look into taking on-peak and divide it by 6 hours and multiply it by 3 to help get a little closer to reality. I can do the same for each tier, but this will make it near impossible for anyone to use it unless they have modify the TOU-D-B to match their current plan and then adjust all the calculations based off theirs instead of mine. So to really compare I moved all Peak from all plans to off-peak since any generation under these newer plans would likely happen during off-peak...could very well be why these plans are designed this way.

Please take a look now at the sheet and see if this makes it closer?

How can one download their usage hourly and summarize all that data for a monthly total for each of the 3 tiers of rates per plan?
 
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Curious, are any of you with Tesla Solar + Battery using Advanced Time-based control in the app? If so are you using Balanced or Cost Savings? Seems Balanced would be the option to avoid pulling from the grid and paying NBCs?
 
Why did you lose TOU-D-A?

I still have my TOU-D-A and my NBC are based off consumption. Pretty much all my super off peak charging get hit with the NBC. Since Prime rate is cheap also in the morning, you may want to swift your charging to start after sunrise if you can unless you need the car charged to get to work.

Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news (if you didn't know this already), but you'll only have TOU-D-A for another 2 years. When they discontinued it, the grandfathering is only effective for 5 years (discontinued in 2018).

Sucks, but you'll be on the current TOU rate plans in a bit. I guess enjoy it while you can!
 
How can one download their usage hourly and summarize all that data for a monthly total for each of the 3 tiers of rates per plan?
Log into your SCE account, select Data Sharing and Download on the left side menu, then hit the Download button in the Download Usage Data section. The data is in Excel format and you can select the range up to 13 months back. Once you have that, combine the hourly amounts into rate period groups for input to your spreadsheet.
 
Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news (if you didn't know this already), but you'll only have TOU-D-A for another 2 years. When they discontinued it, the grandfathering is only effective for 5 years (discontinued in 2018).

Sucks, but you'll be on the current TOU rate plans in a bit. I guess enjoy it while you can!
Yeah I know about that. Already cried about it for a few years already. :( BTW, just noticed that many people on this thread live in Rancho Cucamonga including me. What's the odd? Heh.