TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Scheduled Departure Precondition, just cabin or battery as well?

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by Radders, Jan 7, 2020.

  1. Radders

    Radders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2019
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Essex
    So, i'm making the switch to Octopus Go, and so far have been enjoying Schedule departure and getting into a preconditioned car in the icy mornings.

    With octopus go i will revert back to 'start charging at' function to utilise charging in the cheap rate, and then just heat cabin manually before i leave.

    my question is does anyone know if the the preconditioning that runs with scheduled departure also preheat the battery, therefore improving re-gen etc
     
  2. JCremonini

    JCremonini Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2019
    Messages:
    285
    Location:
    Bucks
    • Disagree x 1
  3. Radders

    Radders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2019
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Essex
    Thanks for the link, I did search for 'precondition' and didn't come up with anything useful...
     
  4. mswlogo

    mswlogo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2018
    Messages:
    5,794
    Location:
    MA, NH
    #4 mswlogo, Jan 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    That link was kind of useless. The reason why you see disappointing comments or mixed comments is:

    Modal 3 does not heat the battery on L2 for the purposes of better regen. It does heat the battery for better charging as it sees fit. It does not heat battery (directly) when warming just the cabin unless you have a snow flake so that you get full capacity of the battery. Model 3 will heat the battery when routed to a supercharger for faster charging (regardless of snowflake or regen?). If the supercharger is close enough. Even L2 charging for a long period may not help regain full regen. As long as battery is warm enough to charge it may not warm it any further and still be well below full regen.

    The Model S/X will heat the battery when cabin heater is on and Range Mode is off and heavily regen limited (parked or while driving). Up to a certain point and may not reach full regen no matter how long you heat the cabin. It does not change heating behavior when routed to a supercharger. And will heat the battery for improved L2 charging. I assume it heats battery during cabin heating while a snow flake is up (with or without range mode?), but I’ve yet to see a snowflake on the X. Not sure how long heater will run during just charging (depending on range mode?). That is, is it just enough to reach L2 charging and remove snow flake (like Model 3) or does it go beyond (like it does with cabin heater for better regen).

    I think the reason why Model 3 heats battery less during cabin heating than S/X is because while driving Model 3 battery gets heat from drive units for “free”. Model S/X does not.

    All these behaviors probably change if battery is nearly full or nearly empty and the amount (amps, time or trip points) it does anything may vary with state of charge, battery temperature as well as amps available.
     
  5. Radders

    Radders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2019
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Essex
    Thanks, Yes should have said, Model 3 SR+, (Yes seen the pre-condition battery for supercharging come up on way to Supercharger) so basically doesn't matter for me if i manually pre-heat cabin, or do it via scheduled charging...

    Cheers
     
  6. interbear

    interbear Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2019
    Messages:
    672
    Location:
    Monmouthshire, UK
    I’m pretty sure it only preconditions the cabin / climate, and schedules battery charging to complete ready for departure, but doesn’t actually precondition the battery (as you see when sat nav routes you to a Tesla supercharger).

    And, Octopus referral sent via DM in the unlikely event you don’t have one yet :)
     
  7. Radders

    Radders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2019
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Essex
    Thanks for response, and unfortunately already signed up with another referral code from elsewhere on forum.
     
    • Like x 1
  8. NorfolkMustard

    NorfolkMustard Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    2,059
    Location:
    M3P w/FSD
    this is (only recently) incorrect.

    the recent software update changed it so that the M3 most certainly does preheat the battery and not only when the snowflake is shown. It seems to do it any time the battery is cold enough to affect regen.

    This occurs if the car is connected to power or not. It only happens when you turn on climate remotely (not from within the car). It heats the battery, using waste heat from the front and rear stators to heat coolant through the magic-bottle, until the cells are at roughly 23°C and then stops (IME this takes about 20 mins) continuing to heat the cabin only.
     
    • Informative x 3
  9. J0hn.r

    J0hn.r Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2019
    Messages:
    67
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Regen dotted line is usually all the way up to “D” (comparing to the P R N D text above it) because of the cold weather.
    This morning I have started preconditioning the car for a long journey. Through the Teslafi app. From 6:20 to 7:30, as I changed plans and forgot to turn it off (Note to self: when adding “start HVAC” commands in the schedule, add a “stop HVAC” command as well after another 20-30 mins!)
    What I meant to say is, when I eventually set off, with a warm cabin, the dotted lines disappeared completely.
    So I guess it does preheat the battery, but I’m not sure if the heating duration mattered. Probably did.
     
  10. Radders

    Radders Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2019
    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    Essex
    So this was just done via the app (was this just turning HVAC on or on HI?), so if i pre-heat manually via app, then this will be the same as scheduled departure precondition.
     
  11. NorfolkMustard

    NorfolkMustard Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    2,059
    Location:
    M3P w/FSD
    Yeah, that's what I'm seeing and hearing recently too, simply by turning on Climate ( not on "HI") via the app. It decides on its own to enable pre-conditioning (and rear screen/mirror heaters)

    Here are the graphs comparing 2019.40.2 with 2019.40.50 all other factors the same. You'll see 40.50 uses 10kW for a lot longer than 40.2.

    40.2 stops using high kW when the cabin is at desired temp, while 40.50 carries on for 20 minutes

    Morning warm-up - comparing 2019.40.2 v. 2019.40.50

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. VanillaAir_UK

    VanillaAir_UK Moderator UK and Ireland

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    6,633
    Location:
    Surrey, UK
    #12 VanillaAir_UK, Jan 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
    Just curious, but why waste energy pre conditioning battery to give full regen instead of setting off and letting battery warm and regen come back naturally, albeit at loss of efficiency? Does pre conditioning waste less energy than what you lose by not having full regen?

    I could understand if low regen caused significant driving issues, but transition from lifting off accelerator and depressing brake is still as natural as driving an ICE, plus you benefit from using brake as they would be less likely to suffer from lack of use. 5 minutes or so is about what it takes to warm the cabin, if needed.
     
    • Like x 2
  13. NewbieT

    NewbieT Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2019
    Messages:
    886
    Location:
    North West
    Wondering...

    a) Did Tesla do the maths being more efficient to warm it than the loss of efficiency using a cold battery?
    b) Warming the battery protects it / reduces degradation?
    c) Improve autopilot performance with regen vs brakes?
     
  14. NorfolkMustard

    NorfolkMustard Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    2,059
    Location:
    M3P w/FSD
    I think (guess) it’s a bit of B and a bit of trying to avoid a negative experience for the owner - the “what does that mean” when the limited regen warning message appears and the inconsistent regen when lifting off the accelerator. although losing ~10 miles of range is the price.
     
  15. Adopado

    Adopado Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Messages:
    2,832
    Location:
    Scotland
    I suppose the advantage is just that the losses don't result in a reduction of range using the battery because you are using "shore power". As you say ... there is still going to be energy used.
     
    • Like x 1
  16. LukeT

    LukeT Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2019
    Messages:
    719
    Location:
    UK
    As others have said, I think it's about range and a more consistent driving experience, for which a bit of extra energy use is sacrificed while on shore power. I use it (just turning on HVAC) for a little safety margin on a 200 mile journey in winter, but not on days where range isn't an issue.
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC