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SEC Opening Inquiry
- Thread starter omarsultan
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- TSLA
What allegations did the SEC make?
Answer: none. Pay attention to the details. the Wall Street Journal didn't quote any source at the SEC. the SEC made no allegations. The Wall Street Journal quoted an unnamed source that wasn't even necessarily at the SEC. A single person "familiar with the matter".
Also please give any example of an enforcement action, or even investigation where the stock went up. It just doesn't happen. Wsj article is bs.
Fact and circumstance were not known immediately - hence Tesla did not report the accident right away.
From what we know AP maintained driver preset speed and kept Tesla in it's lane while driver made no attempts to avoid collision. Plus witnesses reported driver could have been distracted and driving too fast and over the speed limit.
Read his entire post, it was a hypothetical. He's saying in general you don't want the SEC after you. Make sense now?
August 2012 SEC announced that they charged Pfizer with violations of the FCPA.
That day stock opened at 23.71, closed at 23.83
Next day, stock went from 23.83 to 23.87
Not at all unusual since the stock is influenced by multiple factors.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
All we know from the police report as published in the LA Times is that the trucker turned "directly in front of" the other vehicle.
In the time available, the car appears to not have changed course.
Not enough information from that to determine whether the driver had time to react at all. Only that the car did not appear to do so.
Seems that there's a lot of information missing yet. Accident reconstruction takes time.
Not seeing anything more than a slap on the wrist from the SEC with regard to this, and that only due to the clumsiness of the response.
Now, beyond the SEC, the real impact, as alluded to above as well, may or may not come from other agencies in the form of additional hoops and hurdles aka regulations. In order to journey down that path, there appears to be some modeling and simulation that needs to be done.
Pardon my ignorance, but IIRC after Elon's announcement of SCTY/TSLA merger the SP tanked by around 10% with low around 195 (started at around 220 or so).
So just looking at the losses based on his announcement, if we threw in the accident information would it have really affected anything? Maybe dropped the SP another 0.5%, or really not at all as we saw later when it became common knowledge?
If you look at the price history are there really grounds for damages due to SP loss from the accident vs. SCTY/TSLA announcement itself?
Pardon my ignorance again, but what is SEC really investigating? As far as I can tell, based on the SP the losses were already baked in. If the stock rose after SCTY/TSLA announcement, then the accident may have been more relevant, IMHO.
Are they investigating because Elon mouthed off? That seems really pithy and spiteful. And this is coming from someone who respects the SEC.
So just looking at the losses based on his announcement, if we threw in the accident information would it have really affected anything? Maybe dropped the SP another 0.5%, or really not at all as we saw later when it became common knowledge?
If you look at the price history are there really grounds for damages due to SP loss from the accident vs. SCTY/TSLA announcement itself?
Pardon my ignorance again, but what is SEC really investigating? As far as I can tell, based on the SP the losses were already baked in. If the stock rose after SCTY/TSLA announcement, then the accident may have been more relevant, IMHO.
Are they investigating because Elon mouthed off? That seems really pithy and spiteful. And this is coming from someone who respects the SEC.
First fatality ever?
From wrong anything follows.
i' am glad there is nothing material against tesla even in this case, just pure FUD.
From wrong anything follows.
i' am glad there is nothing material against tesla even in this case, just pure FUD.
But here is the opportunity. Tesla has the best Autopilot suite and data set. Hopefully our regulators will have the wisdom to go to the best, to devise future rule and regulations.
Reports said that laptop and dvd player were revcovered. Also, truck driver heard Harry Movie playing. Another driver said that Tesla passed them at high rate of speed - way over speed limit. All available information points at the driver, none at AP malfunction.
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Not sure what point you are trying to make. In the example you cite, the Pfizer stock price did not change after the SEC brought charges against Pfizer (for violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, not Securities Fraud, but whatever).
This is not an example where an alleged misstatement or omission had no effect on the stock price once the information became known, yet the SEC decided to press ahead with securities fraud charges to protect investors against non-existent losses, as you seem to be implying.
Or perhaps you were trying to say that in the extremely unlikely event that the SEC feels the need to step in to protect investors from an alleged fraud that led to the TSLA stock price going up, the market would ignore that claim in the same way it did with the SEC FCPA's charge against Pfizer?
Not sure what point you are trying to make. In the example you cite, the Pfizer stock price did not change after the SEC brought charges against Pfizer (for violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, not Securities Fraud, but whatever).
This is not an example where an alleged misstatement or omission had no effect on the stock price once the information became known, yet the SEC decided to press ahead with securities fraud charges to protect investors against non-existent losses, as you seem to be implying.
Or perhaps you were trying to say that in the extremely unlikely event that the SEC feels the need to step in to protect investors from an alleged fraud that led to the TSLA stock price going up, the market would ignore that claim in the same way it did with the SEC FCPA's charge against Pfizer?
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Per my original post, i was responding to this statement
"Also please give any example of an enforcement action, or even investigation where the stock went up. It just doesn't happen. Wsj article is bs."
Well, the article you cite is not an example of an SEC investigation or enforcement action where the stock price increased once the allegedly "material" information was disclosed, which is obviously what @bhzmark was asking about. The article refers to a situation where the stock price did not move even after the SEC enforcement action against Pfizer was announced.
This was not their first fatality.
Why would they expect media coverage to be significant in the event of an accident? There are 80 or so fatal car accidents a day in the US. The other car companies don't report fatal accidents of their customers in SEC disclosures. Why should Tesla?
All Tesla knew at the time of the secondary offering that there was a tragic, fatal accident. Possibly they had the police report, which indicated the truck driver was at fault, and pending charges.
The proof is in the pudding. There was/is in fact significant media coverage of this accident. Front page news, lead story in network television at the local, national and international level.
The regulatory environment for Tesla is also impacted.
It was the first fatality while using Autopilot. I agree there's no proof AP was in anyway at fault but taken together these facts are material IMHO.
TaoJones
Beyond Driven
Let's try this again.
Pending the results of expert accident reconstruction and analysis, the only conclusions that can be drawn from the official report is that a previously-cited trucker turned "directly in front of" the oncoming vehicle.
Clearly the car's driver did not react in time, and clearly, the car did not react in time.
In my mind, it's clear that the trucker may well have caused the accident. Not the driver of the car, not the car itself. There's *causing* and there's *avoiding* - two very different things. Roads are only so wide and trucks can be very long - especially broadside. Point being the driver of the car could have been a race car driver amped up on 3 cups of coffee with no DVD player in sight and there *still* may just have been nowhere to turn (literally). It is also clear, at least from the police report I just read, that we don't know yet, and we wouldn't since for all we know the relevant firms haven't even been selected to *do* the independent analysis yet.
In the world of cause and blame there is a certain amount of litigiousness, and that's why I will wait until expert findings are released (to which frankly we may or may not ever be privy) with regard to the accident itself.
Whatever the SEC does in the meantime is going to have a lot more to do with preferred process than with any actual results of the post-accident analysis. We've already heard from MobilEye concerning the technology. Again - if the car had been a Ford with basic cruise control, this accident wouldn't have even made the national news. Insofar as disclosure *to* the SEC goes, one of my points above is that it takes a *lot* longer if ever to have a definitive conclusion about a particular accident than most people think. Tesla didn't know 2 weeks after the accident because, most likely, they didn't know. That's both entirely reasonable and entirely not surprising.
Yes, I understand there is significant media coverage of the accident. What I don't understand is why Tesla should have expected that given what they knew at the time, which was that a car accident occurred. Car accidents happen all the time and aren't major media events (unless a famous person died I guess).
I think what you left out was the reason why they should have anticipated it. It was an accident while using AP, that's what the headlines (rightly or wrongly) picked up on.
And that wasn't known at the time, at least from what I gather from Tesla's blog post. Looks like Tesla's investigator only went out there and downloaded the black box on the day of the offering. Analysis wasn't complete until after the sale.
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