Second day on FSD 10.69.2 - Two clearly unsafe maneuvers in 20 minutes

[Bob Denny]

I've been so skeptical over the last couple of years... 2020 MX. I got the 10.69.2 FSD beta and turned it all on, and doing Navigate on Autopilot. On the plus side the driver's display is fantastic. I think you could drive "on instruments" without looking out the window. On the minus side, it crossed a solid white line, both times creating a hazard for vehicles behind me. I had to quickly take control. Today, and on day 1 (yesterday) it changed lanes in an intersection when it didn't need to (the left turn was a mile ahead). Coming off the freeway and turning left to cross the overpass, it completed the turn then immediately changed lanes to the right across a solid white line, cutting off the car behind me and to the right, and creating a hazard. The worst was making a right turn from a wide surface street, right turn only lane, onto a freeway on ramp. It started the turn, got confused, whipped left and right, then slammed on the brakes, creating another hazard. Again I had to take control and stamp on the accelerator to avoid a rear ender. The people behind me were probably swearing.

I think this FSD Beta will prove to be the cause of some rear-enders, etc. I want to love it, but right now, I feel about the same as I did in Jan 2022 (2 years after paying $10,000 for the FSD promise). I'm still skeptical that it will ever be "Full Self Driving"

 

[Jay Smith]

I've been so skeptical over the last couple of years... 2020 MX. I got the 10.69.2 FSD beta and turned it all on, and doing Navigate on Autopilot. On the plus side the driver's display is fantastic. I think you could drive "on instruments" without looking out the window. On the minus side, it crossed a solid white line, both times creating a hazard for vehicles behind me. I had to quickly take control. Today, and on day 1 (yesterday) it changed lanes in an intersection when it didn't need to (the left turn was a mile ahead). Coming off the freeway and turning left to cross the overpass, it completed the turn then immediately changed lanes to the right across a solid white line, cutting off the car behind me and to the right, and creating a hazard. The worst was making a right turn from a wide surface street, right turn only lane, onto a freeway on ramp. It started the turn, got confused, whipped left and right, then slammed on the brakes, creating another hazard. Again I had to take control and stamp on the accelerator to avoid a rear ender. The people behind me were probably swearing.

I think this FSD Beta will prove to be the cause of some rear-enders, etc. I want to love it, but right now, I feel about the same as I did in Jan 2022 (2 years after paying $10,000 for the FSD promise). I'm still skeptical that it will ever be "Full Self Driving"

Similar to my experience Friday night on ver 2. Just got 2.2 so here's hoping.

 

[2101Guy]

Is this the one that’s ?

 

[Bob Denny]

Well I'm no more hopeful with 10.69.2.2. Nav on Autopilot, freeway, light traffic. It needed to get to the right to transition from one freeway to another. It proceeded signal right to change lanes into a lane that was ending, right into the area with the big white left arrows on the road. What's worse is a guy was coming up on the right trying to squeeze by me before the lane ended "holy **** what the hell is that Tesla doing?). Not only incorrect but also unsafe. My GPS is fine, I had 5 bars of 4G, the nav display was fine. This stretch of freeway SR202 at US 60 in Phoenix area has not been altered in a very long time. This was yesterday. There have been others, but let's suffice it to say I've been scared and had to take control multiple times by FSD since 10.69.2.2 both on surface streets and freeway (still!).

The good-ish news is that the basic self-driving, without trying to navigate, is pretty decent. It no longer bum-rushes an intersection with a red signal, and its turn-signal lane changes are OK. But hey, that's just more or less what other makes of vehicle are getting to as well. And it's not self-driving, it's "monitored driving". Sigh.

 

[Bob Denny]

10.69.2.3 a couple of days ago. Not once could I avoid taking control.

• It stopped about 40 feet before a stop sign, announced that it was going to creep, then shot out into the intersection, running the stop.
• It is still signalling way too late in a left turn lane, like at the far end when it is about to actually make the turn.
• It was headed for the curb on a left turn an intersection with a "curb bulb-out" (why they made it is unknown)
• It's smoother now, but still bum-rushes red lights needlessly.
• Unprotected left turns with oncoming traffic are still scary.

 

[DCGOO]

10.69.2.3 a couple of days ago. Not once could I avoid taking control.

• It stopped about 40 feet before a stop sign, announced that it was going to creep, then shot out into the intersection, running the stop.
• It is still signalling way too late in a left turn lane, like at the far end when it is about to actually make the turn.
• It was headed for the curb on a left turn an intersection with a "curb bulb-out" (why they made it is unknown)
• It's smoother now, but still bum-rushes red lights needlessly.
• Unprotected left turns with oncoming traffic are still scary.

Did you punch the little camera to report it? Mentioning it here, does nothing.

 

[boonedocks]

Is this the one that’s ?

No this one is more like:

 

[Bob Denny]

Did you punch the little camera to report it? Mentioning it here, does nothing.

What? Is that the little black camera icon at the top of the display? That sends the last x seconds (or minutes) of video and some telemetry? That would be GREAT. Also if that's it, how did you find out about it? Was it in the Release Notes or ???

If that's it, I'll be thrilled to know it's reporting back. I assumed that any time you took over control that info would be sent back. Well.....

Thanks!!

 

[Jane4]

I've been so skeptical over the last couple of years... 2020 MX. I got the 10.69.2 FSD beta and turned it all on, and doing Navigate on Autopilot. On the plus side the driver's display is fantastic. I think you could drive "on instruments" without looking out the window. On the minus side, it crossed a solid white line, both times creating a hazard for vehicles behind me. I had to quickly take control. Today, and on day 1 (yesterday) it changed lanes in an intersection when it didn't need to (the left turn was a mile ahead). Coming off the freeway and turning left to cross the overpass, it completed the turn then immediately changed lanes to the right across a solid white line, cutting off the car behind me and to the right, and creating a hazard. The worst was making a right turn from a wide surface street, right turn only lane, onto a freeway on ramp. It started the turn, got confused, whipped left and right, then slammed on the brakes, creating another hazard. Again I had to take control and stamp on the accelerator to avoid a rear ender. The people behind me were probably swearing.Scaaryt st

I think this FSD Beta will prove to be the cause of some rear-enders, etc. I want to love it, but right now, I feel about the same as I did in Jan 2022 (2 years after paying $10,000 for the FSD promise). I'm still skeptical that it will ever be "Full Self Driving"

Scary stuff!! Elon needs to finish the FSD before embarking upon robots, etc. I was just using the Cruise Control a few days ago and the car did some random braking and at one point took over and veered right. I think it was in response to some weirdness in the road surface. Not as life threatening as what you experienced, for sure.

 

[Bob Denny]

@Jane4 - My experience with FSD and autopilot in challenging conditions has actually been very good. For example driving into the sun on a wet highway works well. It's hard to believe it's even possible, given that I had a lot of difficulty making out the road markings. Driving at night can also be challenging and I've had good experiences.

My complaints are around the FSD decision making in traffic when navigating on autopilot, and to FSD handling of intersections in general.

 

[DrChaos]

Well I'm no more hopeful with 10.69.2.2. Nav on Autopilot, freeway, light traffic. It needed to get to the right to transition from one freeway to another. It proceeded signal right to change lanes into a lane that was ending, right into the area with the big white left arrows on the road. What's worse is a guy was coming up on the right trying to squeeze by me before the lane ended "holy **** what the hell is that Tesla doing?). Not only incorrect but also unsafe. My GPS is fine, I had 5 bars of 4G, the nav display was fine. This stretch of freeway SR202 at US 60 in Phoenix area has not been altered in a very long time. This was yesterday. There have been others, but let's suffice it to say I've been scared and had to take control multiple times by FSD since 10.69.2.2 both on surface streets and freeway (still!).

More evidence a big missing part of FSD currently is lack of good mapping. It's driving everywhere like someone with zero memory.

It isn't just static mapping of 'this is drivable surface and here are the lane lines' that's needed but semantic mapping which shows where humans actually do and the car should drive to get from here to there. As in the above situation it would know that humans who eventually took the exit mostly didn't go into that final short lane. All this data could be found by instrumenting the fleet and doing some large scale back-end computation and geographical representation using manual driving---an asset few competitors have.

Yes, its a 'hack' or 'shortcut' but it's essential because otherwise the car has to solve both human general intelligence, and precognition. Even humans drive signfiicantly better over routes they take frequently---and most of our own driving is on routes we've mostly seen before. We have some unconscious geometric memory for pathfinding evolved back from the days of walking on African grasslands.

A car with fleet sourced info could do even better by humans as it would "drive like a local" everywhere it collected data. It would cost Tesla money in back end engineering and a bunch of wireless bandwidth.

 

[Dewg]

Yes, its a 'hack' or 'shortcut' but it's essential because otherwise the car has to solve both human general intelligence, and precognition. Even humans drive signfiicantly better over routes they take frequently---and most of our own driving is on routes we've mostly seen before. We have some unconscious geometric memory for pathfinding evolved back from the days of walking on African grasslands.

It's a blessing and a curse. The more humans drive a route, the better they are at anticipation, but the more likely they are to "zone out" on the drive as well. Humans begin to rely on "muscle memory" for their drives and accidents increase. The statistic from NHTSA is that most accidents happen within 10 miles of home, where people drive their common routes/commutes.

 

[DCGOO]

What? Is that the little black camera icon at the top of the display? That sends the last x seconds (or minutes) of video and some telemetry? That would be GREAT. Also if that's it, how did you find out about it? Was it in the Release Notes or ???
If that's it, I'll be thrilled to know it's reporting back. I assumed that any time you took over control that info would be sent back. Well.....
Thanks!!

Well, it was mentioned in the ”welcome to beta” letter and probably the release notes. The release notes are very important. The little camera icon is the main tool used to report issues. Following up with an email to FSDbeta@ Tesla.com is also helpful, note the rough time of the snapshot in any correspondenc.

 

[Jane4]

@Jane4 - My experience with FSD and autopilot in challenging conditions has actually been very good. For example driving into the sun on a wet highway works well. It's hard to believe it's even possible, given that I had a lot of difficulty making out the road markings. Driving at night can also be challenging and I've had good experiences.

My complaints are around the FSD decision making in traffic when navigating on autopilot, and to FSD handling of intersections in general.

Got it. Thanks.