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Those Volt images look pretty bad. The frames are in both cases quite twisted and torn. We've yet to see a Model S with that degree of structural damage, despite several Model S' being involved in quite energetic collisions. It may be that the Model S is more prone to catch fire than a Volt, but by that same standard of evidence, the Volt is less safe when it comes to the actual collision. We'll just have to keep paying attention. It's still a bit early to draw conclusions. The next three Volt collisions might cause fires and the next five Model S collisions may result in serious structural damage.
I think a lot of people are actively scouring the internet for reports of Model S fires and accidents. I also keep seeing accident threads popping up, elevating these incidents to a level beyond what occurs when other automakers' vehicles end up in accidents. I believe a lot of the attention paid to Model S accidents is self inflicted by some Model S owners having an odd fascination with accidents.
I think the Volt seemed to hold up pretty well in the second pic given the description of what happened. It could be the central tunnel design of the battery pack they use might be better from a standpoint of avoiding fires, but if you used that design with a 85Kwh battery you would either have a center tunnel that completely divided the left and right sides of the car (floor to ceiling battery) or was only a 2 seater since it would be too wide to also allow seats on both sides of it. In any case, the Tesla looks like it was slammed pretty hard into pretty much immovable objects (the tree especially is a devastating impact since they just don't give do anything but force every bit of the impact to be absorbed by the car. Hitting another car at least allows the impact to be dispersed among both vehicles).
Agreed. Also, as an early Volt owner, I was on GM-Volt.com every day and almost every major Volt accident has been logged there. If you recall, there was a concerted effort by one political party to ensure that the Volt failed, and a lot of people were scouring the internet for Volt incidents. To the best of my knowledge no Volt has ever caused a fire, but two Volts were consumed in garage fires that were not caused by the Volts.
I agree Yddrasill that the Model S's seem to maintain much better structural integrity in the passenger area than the Volt does, but this may also have to do with the types of accidents Model S's have endured (mostly front-end collisions, from what I've seen). This may also have to do with the fact that the Model S has probably the lowest center of gravity of any sedan, which helps avoid rollovers (like the black Volt endured).
But who knows, the "next three Volt collisions might cause fires and the next five Model S collisions may result in serious structural damage."
In fact, I wouldn't call this one an accident. It's a heck of a *crash*. But this looks like grossly reckless driving (high speed -- 4 AM -- off the road -- through a concrete wall), which I am not willing to call an accident.
The commenters on Jalopnik are pretty reasonable (and so is Jalopnik itself). So there might be some hope that the 'media' won't jump on it like hyena's this time. Or am I kidding myself?
I also think a Model S, because of its performance, it more likely to be driven faster than a Volt, and therefore crashed harder when the reckless moron hits a wall, making it more likely to catch fire if everything else is equal.
Vger
Active Member
If the car crashed right through a concrete wall, after being airborne, the battery could well have been compromised by passing over the ends of razor-sharp sheared-off rebar.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
Here's a thought. What if it's precisely because of that low, wide, flat battery pack running the width and axle length of the car that the Model S passenger compartment has held up so well in all of the crashes we've seen and precisely why so many people walk away from pretty bad Model S crashes. Now, consider that in designing the car for this property it could potentially expose the battery pack to more damage in those collisions. Is this a reasonable engineering trade-off? A more survivable, intact passenger compartment vs. more potential for battery damage? So far, the evidence would suggest "yes."
Kraken
Member
There is something strange about this one. While I highly doubt there is any malice behind this one, it is always possible. It was reported on a day the stock was trending down heavily already (in a similar percentage as last time) at almost the exact same time. This time though, the stock didnt nosedive after to make the day worse for the stock.
This happened 10 days ago... The report timing could be suspect.
it happened in Mexico, where no one will investigate it. It happened at 4am, where no one could see it and the least bystanders were at risk. The driver was no where to be found.
there are a lot of people/industries with way more than 100k on the line if tesla were to thrive.
The first fire proved exactly how to cause one, and provided a precedence for how an owner would respond after being in a fire. If I were doing a setup, I wouldn't be in the car, I'd have a good alibi, and I'd respond by saying I want another model s (because if I don't, I become suspect in my intentions).
it seems odd that the second would happen 17 days after the first, when a full year produced none.
i think tesla has a pretty good clue if this was a setup though. I'm sure there aren't many in Mexico (my guess is less than a handful), and they definitely can figure out the likelihood of is being a setup.
My guess, based on their response is that it isn't a setup, and they aren't worried about this, but there are still some peculiarities to this.
This happened 10 days ago... The report timing could be suspect.
it happened in Mexico, where no one will investigate it. It happened at 4am, where no one could see it and the least bystanders were at risk. The driver was no where to be found.
there are a lot of people/industries with way more than 100k on the line if tesla were to thrive.
The first fire proved exactly how to cause one, and provided a precedence for how an owner would respond after being in a fire. If I were doing a setup, I wouldn't be in the car, I'd have a good alibi, and I'd respond by saying I want another model s (because if I don't, I become suspect in my intentions).
it seems odd that the second would happen 17 days after the first, when a full year produced none.
i think tesla has a pretty good clue if this was a setup though. I'm sure there aren't many in Mexico (my guess is less than a handful), and they definitely can figure out the likelihood of is being a setup.
My guess, based on their response is that it isn't a setup, and they aren't worried about this, but there are still some peculiarities to this.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The only thing peculiar here is your attempt to create a conspiracy out of nothing at all. Someone purposely crashed a Model S in Mexico ten days ago, somehow knew the story would never be picked up, until they were ready to release it, and pull the stock price down a bit. Or not, if some other better news had propped up the stock before they decided to release this crash information.
roblab
Active Member
My first thought is that it is NOT a battery fire. It looks like it starts in the frunk. What was the guy hauling? Notice that entire battery pack is visible, no flames. The first fire, the flames were under the front of the pack. Then the fire proceeds into the cabin. The first fire, it never did. Sounds like combustibles, in the frunk or in the cabin. Hitting something at speed, especially a concrete wall and tree, would cause things in the frunk, or the cabin, to become explosive missiles.
I am waiting to hear Tesla's report. Assuming they are ever allowed to look at it. I highly wonder about the unlawful actions of the driver.
I am waiting to hear Tesla's report. Assuming they are ever allowed to look at it. I highly wonder about the unlawful actions of the driver.
Somehow driving a car at a high rate of speed, getting it airborne, and crashing through a barrier doesn't strike me as the best way to manipulate the stock price. Even in a Model S there is still a big element of risk--something could come through the windshield.
Just speculating here but what could have happened was as the fire came out of the front, tree partly caught on fire, As the tree penetrated the front potion of the car, the air bags caught fire. This would explain why there is burning on specific parts of the doors.
I think there's no doubt that it's a battery fire. The battery pack extends to the front axle, so there are batteries under the aft end of the frunk.
The deformation of the front of the Model S in this accident surely impacted the battery pack, compromising cell integrity and releasing intense heat. It starts with the heat of the batteries being released to ignite flammable materials in the car and battery cells (rubber, plastic, fabric). The heat also make the 18650 cell act like little pipe-bombs. Just take a sealed pipe with water in it and put it in the middle of a hot fire. It will explode, and sound 'like a combustible'.
Then, when the fireman adds water to the mixture, you can see electrical shorting in the bright-white flashes at 2:01 in the video below:
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borat99
Member
It's sad that people are still overreacting over this on Twitter. Most just read the tweet without realizing the drunk driver walked away without permanent injuries. If it was an ICE, it would end up like this Breaking: Fire near Tiananmen Square (updating): Shanghaiist 5 Dead, 38 Injured
I haven't seen it mentioned, but there is a second newspaper report:
Choca varias veces e incendia su auto
It has a picture of a concrete wall and electrified fence that was demolished by the Model S on its way to the tree:
The Google map street view of the area is not up to date... it doesn't have the current wall in front of the Banamex for instance.
Pocito, yucatan - Google Maps
Choca varias veces e incendia su auto
It has a picture of a concrete wall and electrified fence that was demolished by the Model S on its way to the tree:
The Google map street view of the area is not up to date... it doesn't have the current wall in front of the Banamex for instance.
Pocito, yucatan - Google Maps
Here is an English translation of the article:
Spectacular accident happened yesterday at 3:50 am in the San Antonio Cucul , north of Merida, when guiding a vehicle lost control of the wheel, hit the roundabout Pucito tracked , crashed electrified the wall of a residence and went into a tree. The car caught fire .
According to witnesses , the driver was traveling under the influences of alcohol and apparently impared.
According to the data, the mishap occurred on Avenue Chamber of Commerce 32nd Street San Antonio colony Cucul , right in the roundabout Pocito .
The Tesla plates 89-73 ZAN- journeyed from west to east on the avenue .
At the roundabout , due to excessive speed, guiding the wheel lost control and crashed into the lining of the gazebo .
The vehicle bounced , jumped the curb and crashed into the site 248 , owned by Ligia Marrufo ;demolished a part of the electrified fence and then crashed into a tree. On impact, the vehicle caught fire .
With the help of other drivers , the driver was out of the car and boarded a private vehicle in which he fled.
A few minutes later came ambulance, police and firefighters SSP. It closed the road to avoid other accidents , and retired to the neighbors , it was feared that there would be an explosion .
The flames completely consumed Tesla , which was later removed from the site . The aim is to locate the owner of the car by the plates , to answer for the damages. - David Chan Caamal
Spectacular accident happened yesterday at 3:50 am in the San Antonio Cucul , north of Merida, when guiding a vehicle lost control of the wheel, hit the roundabout Pucito tracked , crashed electrified the wall of a residence and went into a tree. The car caught fire .
According to witnesses , the driver was traveling under the influences of alcohol and apparently impared.
According to the data, the mishap occurred on Avenue Chamber of Commerce 32nd Street San Antonio colony Cucul , right in the roundabout Pocito .
The Tesla plates 89-73 ZAN- journeyed from west to east on the avenue .
At the roundabout , due to excessive speed, guiding the wheel lost control and crashed into the lining of the gazebo .
The vehicle bounced , jumped the curb and crashed into the site 248 , owned by Ligia Marrufo ;demolished a part of the electrified fence and then crashed into a tree. On impact, the vehicle caught fire .
With the help of other drivers , the driver was out of the car and boarded a private vehicle in which he fled.
A few minutes later came ambulance, police and firefighters SSP. It closed the road to avoid other accidents , and retired to the neighbors , it was feared that there would be an explosion .
The flames completely consumed Tesla , which was later removed from the site . The aim is to locate the owner of the car by the plates , to answer for the damages. - David Chan Caamal
"""second job for a tesla .....
demolitions truck""""
1)crashed into the lining of the gazebo.
2)demolished a part of the electrified fence
3)concrete wall
and TREE
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