It's the last 10 or so posts as of 13:00 GMT+1 on Doing our part. There's comments from Martin on most of those posts.
Cobos
Cobos
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Yes, Carolyn is referring to Martin's comments near the end of Doing Our Part blog. I'd start with his response to "Comment by Chris Harvey May 2, 2008 @ 11:40 am."
Unfortunately with Martin's blog there are a few people there who get off topic and rather long winded after only the first few comments. I tend to just do a search (Ctrl+F) for "Martin sez" since I'm mostly interested in what he has to say anyway.
Unfortunately with Martin's blog there are a few people there who get off topic and rather long winded after only the first few comments. I tend to just do a search (Ctrl+F) for "Martin sez" since I'm mostly interested in what he has to say anyway.
Doug,
you are correct sir! It's tough trying to keep some of those guys "on topic" :redface:.
I'm glad to see that this issue of VIN #s and P #s being out of sequence is getting some attention. I read the TM blogs and it's as if most of those people have forgotten about Martin and his contribution to the company and the car. It bothers me on a personal level. Anyway...
All the best,
Chris H.
Since it appears that the TM site is now censoring my posts (my latest has been stuck in "moderation limbo" since 5:55 am PST while later posts are showing up) I will attempt to post it here. It was a response to a poster called Kevin Harney. Here goes:
Kevin,
I appreciate your response to my question, however I think that you are missing the big picture here. I know what Darryl said in his post. I also know what he skillfully and intentionally omitted. I would just like Mr. Siry to go on record in a public forum, in front of his customers and potential future customers, as to if Tesla Motors built P2 and P3 (and possibly others) out of VIN # sequence, and what the REAL reason was for doing this.
If you are getting all, or most, of your information from the Tesla Motors site, then you are missing a lot. Try looking at the Tesla Founders Blog, or the Tesla Motors Club site and you will see what I mean.
BTW, I understand that Darryl Siry is in a difficult position. He has his dream job, and he doesn’t want to lose it. However, he is fully aware of what happens to Tesla employees that oppose the will of Chairman Musk. He is doing what he believes he has to in order to keep his dream job, and unfortunately that includes willfully misleading loyal Tesla supporters. I do not envy him his task, but I also do not condone his actions.
All the best,
Chris H.
Hopefully you guys are a bit more open minded...
Kevin,
I appreciate your response to my question, however I think that you are missing the big picture here. I know what Darryl said in his post. I also know what he skillfully and intentionally omitted. I would just like Mr. Siry to go on record in a public forum, in front of his customers and potential future customers, as to if Tesla Motors built P2 and P3 (and possibly others) out of VIN # sequence, and what the REAL reason was for doing this.
If you are getting all, or most, of your information from the Tesla Motors site, then you are missing a lot. Try looking at the Tesla Founders Blog, or the Tesla Motors Club site and you will see what I mean.
BTW, I understand that Darryl Siry is in a difficult position. He has his dream job, and he doesn’t want to lose it. However, he is fully aware of what happens to Tesla employees that oppose the will of Chairman Musk. He is doing what he believes he has to in order to keep his dream job, and unfortunately that includes willfully misleading loyal Tesla supporters. I do not envy him his task, but I also do not condone his actions.
All the best,
Chris H.
Hopefully you guys are a bit more open minded...
paco3791
TMC OG
I like your last paragraph. I think that this is a valid line of reasoning and I can't say exactly what I would do if put in a similar position. There was a time when I was seriously considering appling for a job at Tesla, and while I am still very interested in working on production electric cars some day I'm fairly sure that Tesla will not be that company. Still an interesting thought experiment.
Don't ask any awkward questions...
I may be wrong about this, but...
It looks like I've been blocked from the Tesla Motors blog. I posted this morning at 5:55 am PST. My post is still "awaiting moderation" (14 hrs later), but in the meantime several other posts have gone up.
So, let this be a lesson to all you pesky curious types out there. Don't ask any awkward questions, and certainly don't say anything that could be construed as patronizing about DS. Make sure that it's just peppy, and upbeat, and slavishly congratulatory towards DS and ZD, and you'll be just fine...
Of course, I could be a bit paranoid! :smile: We'll see what happens tomorrow.
All the best,
Chris H.
I may be wrong about this, but...
It looks like I've been blocked from the Tesla Motors blog. I posted this morning at 5:55 am PST. My post is still "awaiting moderation" (14 hrs later), but in the meantime several other posts have gone up.
So, let this be a lesson to all you pesky curious types out there. Don't ask any awkward questions, and certainly don't say anything that could be construed as patronizing about DS. Make sure that it's just peppy, and upbeat, and slavishly congratulatory towards DS and ZD, and you'll be just fine...
Of course, I could be a bit paranoid! :smile: We'll see what happens tomorrow.
All the best,
Chris H.
siry
Member
Chris - I just posted your comment and replied to it. If the moderator thinks something is questionable she/he defers it until I can look at it, which is often many hours later. This whole thread is complete nonsense and the hypocrisy of the personal attacks made here in the name of unjust treatment of people is amazing.
I have tried to stick with this discussion forum since I believe in engaging in a dialogue with people and adding value by providing information directly from the company, but this has gotten ridiculous. It's impossible to try to engage in dialogue amidst the personal attacks, interminable bitterness and accusations.
Therefore, I am signing out for good from this forum and wish you all the best.
I have tried to stick with this discussion forum since I believe in engaging in a dialogue with people and adding value by providing information directly from the company, but this has gotten ridiculous. It's impossible to try to engage in dialogue amidst the personal attacks, interminable bitterness and accusations.
Therefore, I am signing out for good from this forum and wish you all the best.
Funny how Mr. Siry never answer my question about how Martin's car is being shipped. However he got into a rant about how unfairly HE has been treated.
If Mr. Siry ever needs to feel untreated fairly, he needs come live at my house for a day! Are all of the Founder' Series owners being treated the same? WHY does he has his dream job? Because MARTIN started Tesla? Did he forget where his job came from? Has Martin been treated fairly? I dare Mr. Siry to call me and talk to me directly. He has my phone number, or maybe he doesn't since it is that same as Martin's.
If Mr. Siry ever needs to see personal attacks, he might read his own words on the San Jose Mercury News. Isn't that why Tesla had to issue the apology?
The Emperor is not wearing any clothes!
Carolyn
If Mr. Siry ever needs to feel untreated fairly, he needs come live at my house for a day! Are all of the Founder' Series owners being treated the same? WHY does he has his dream job? Because MARTIN started Tesla? Did he forget where his job came from? Has Martin been treated fairly? I dare Mr. Siry to call me and talk to me directly. He has my phone number, or maybe he doesn't since it is that same as Martin's.
If Mr. Siry ever needs to see personal attacks, he might read his own words on the San Jose Mercury News. Isn't that why Tesla had to issue the apology?
The Emperor is not wearing any clothes!
Carolyn
Naked Emperor spotted at SMB & Sepulveda!!!
Carolyn,
You said: " The Emperor is not wearing any clothes!"
I'm glad that you said it and not me, as I'm sure that he would have construed it as another "personal attack"!
Please answer this. If somebody lies to you, or deliberately misleads you, and you call them on it, does that constitute a personal attack? Should you just remain silent and respect their "right" to be cavalier with the truth? I think that's how we ended up with G.W. in the White House isn't it?
Darryl is obviously trying to spin this to make me, and others, look like paranoid conspiracy theorists that should be ignored by "decent" people. He deflected the questions that were asked of him. However, he also inadvertently revealed another past deception on his part. He said:
"I was the one who called Martin personally months ago and told him that VINF003 had already been started when we put VINF002 on the line."
So, now we find out that regular production began before March 17th 2008. Although DS did not give a specific date that he made the phone call, I think that Martin will confirm that it was before March 17th. How's that for conspiracy?
Anyway, I know that the good people here at Tesla Motors Club are probably not amused by this drama, so I'll leave it here.
All the best,
Chris H.
Carolyn,
You said: " The Emperor is not wearing any clothes!"
I'm glad that you said it and not me, as I'm sure that he would have construed it as another "personal attack"!
Please answer this. If somebody lies to you, or deliberately misleads you, and you call them on it, does that constitute a personal attack? Should you just remain silent and respect their "right" to be cavalier with the truth? I think that's how we ended up with G.W. in the White House isn't it?
Darryl is obviously trying to spin this to make me, and others, look like paranoid conspiracy theorists that should be ignored by "decent" people. He deflected the questions that were asked of him. However, he also inadvertently revealed another past deception on his part. He said:
"I was the one who called Martin personally months ago and told him that VINF003 had already been started when we put VINF002 on the line."
So, now we find out that regular production began before March 17th 2008. Although DS did not give a specific date that he made the phone call, I think that Martin will confirm that it was before March 17th. How's that for conspiracy?
Anyway, I know that the good people here at Tesla Motors Club are probably not amused by this drama, so I'll leave it here.
All the best,
Chris H.
More detail
The rest of that conversation with Siry was even more surreal. In order for Tesla to build my car, they wanted me to sign an additional, special contract with them. Craig Harding emailed it to me a few days later, and it was a doozy:
The rest of that conversation with Siry was even more surreal. In order for Tesla to build my car, they wanted me to sign an additional, special contract with them. Craig Harding emailed it to me a few days later, and it was a doozy:
- It required me to sign a "non-disclosure" that would have prevented me from talking about my Roadster (or any Roadster at all) until September. The devious bit in this clause was that they defined what I was allowed to say about the Roadster as only what is already publicly known about the Roadster, except anything that became public because of something I said. Since I was the spokesperson for the company for most of the company's life, practically everything known about the Roadster became known because I said it!
- I was required to bind my wife to this "non-disclosure" as well! (Like I could even do that...)
- It set my delivery date for July
- I had to agree to accept my car with unbounded defects, so long as the car still met DOT requirements, and so long as Tesla disclosed those defects to me
- The car could have unbounded mileage on it when delivered
- They snuck in a change of language, so that I agreed to get VIN 2 rather than the second car produced, and they wrote the contract so that it would supersede all previous contracts
- etc...
I know I'm one of a whole lot of people that hope the Eberhards are not finished with EV endeavors. Preferably a new venture that would result in an affordable sedan that is freeway capable, goes 80 MPH and has a range of 100 miles (hint hint) :biggrin:
It is a shame though with the strong-arm tactics of Tesla, the Company that was to be above the rest.
It is a shame though with the strong-arm tactics of Tesla, the Company that was to be above the rest.
Last post to DS
Since the TM blog is no longer posting my comments, I will post my last comment to Darryl here.
Thanks Darryl,
I'm glad that you appreciate my particular brand of constructive criticism... Please do not interpret my questions and observations as "personal attacks", as that is not the case. I simply yearn for the days when I could believe the press releases and blog posts from Tesla Motors.
Many of the people who have reserved a Roadster, or who are contemplating buying one of TM's future models are intelligent individuals who, generally speaking, do not enjoy being given misleading information.
I can tell from your writing that you are also intelligent enough to appreciate the distinctions between the whole truth, partial truth, lying by omission of relevant information, and pure fabrication. Using the plural, when the truth is singular, "tidying up" production dates, deflecting or ignoring valid and relevant questions, explaining delivery delays with facile stories of quality control, any of this sounding familiar yet? These are all forms of obfuscation and deception.
I don't think that you are a bad person Darryl, and I know that you have a difficult balancing act to maintain. Some directives come from above, and you don't have much choice about whether to follow them or not. You love your job, and you have a family to think of, but try, please, to not fall easily into the role of slick sales executive whose commitment to the truth is transient and opportunistic.
I realize that you will probably not post this comment, but I hope that you read it carefully, maybe twice.
All the best, and good luck,
Chris H.
Since the TM blog is no longer posting my comments, I will post my last comment to Darryl here.
Thanks Darryl,
I'm glad that you appreciate my particular brand of constructive criticism... Please do not interpret my questions and observations as "personal attacks", as that is not the case. I simply yearn for the days when I could believe the press releases and blog posts from Tesla Motors.
Many of the people who have reserved a Roadster, or who are contemplating buying one of TM's future models are intelligent individuals who, generally speaking, do not enjoy being given misleading information.
I can tell from your writing that you are also intelligent enough to appreciate the distinctions between the whole truth, partial truth, lying by omission of relevant information, and pure fabrication. Using the plural, when the truth is singular, "tidying up" production dates, deflecting or ignoring valid and relevant questions, explaining delivery delays with facile stories of quality control, any of this sounding familiar yet? These are all forms of obfuscation and deception.
I don't think that you are a bad person Darryl, and I know that you have a difficult balancing act to maintain. Some directives come from above, and you don't have much choice about whether to follow them or not. You love your job, and you have a family to think of, but try, please, to not fall easily into the role of slick sales executive whose commitment to the truth is transient and opportunistic.
I realize that you will probably not post this comment, but I hope that you read it carefully, maybe twice.
All the best, and good luck,
Chris H.
Usually when someone wants to change the terms of the contract, s/he is willing to give something up in exchange for the new terms. In the way you describe this contract, you would be the one giving up a few rights in exchange for nothing new. Can that be right? Did the contract give you any incentives to sign?
*sigh*
Well this is all very depressing.
It is a shame that Darryl feels that this thread is the last straw. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (ahem) to realise that Tesla's handling of Martin's roadster was always going to be a contentious issue for some of the members of this site. If this were any other car company, we wouldn't be privy to this sort of information - but this is the publicity-bed that Tesla have made for themselves. Everything we know about the Roadster program - good and bad - is up for discussion on forums and blogs.
Well this is all very depressing.
It is a shame that Darryl feels that this thread is the last straw. It doesn't take a rocket scientist (ahem) to realise that Tesla's handling of Martin's roadster was always going to be a contentious issue for some of the members of this site. If this were any other car company, we wouldn't be privy to this sort of information - but this is the publicity-bed that Tesla have made for themselves. Everything we know about the Roadster program - good and bad - is up for discussion on forums and blogs.
This *is* very depressing. I am very disapointed that Tesla Motors would treat *any* customer this way. It is in their best interests to treat Martin just like all of the other founders series customers, and honor their contract with him. If they are not rational enough to act in their own best interest, it will not bode well for their survival.
GSP
GSP
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