Seen in the logs: error codes 1115 and 1116. What are they?

[gregd]

Hi folks,

Just took a look at the logs from my trip last Monday, and I see a bunch of error codes 1115 and 1116 with time stamps thorughout the outgoing leg of the trip. There were no indications in the cabin of anything wrong, other than a couple of very momentary "power limited" messages. Those are seen in the logs as errors 1070, so perhaps 1115 and 1116 are somehow related. They did not occur during the drive home.

The 1115s and 1116s are present right from when I started, to right when I arrived at the destination. Looking further back in the logs, I see them in reduced frequency back to about last November. Since the trip on Monday, no further occurrences.

I don't see either code listed in the Wiki. Any idea what they refer to? Wondering if something is loose...

 

[PV-EV]

Those are motor temperature sensor warnings. Is there a 'rank' associated with them, like 1...4?

 

[gregd]

Those are motor temperature sensor warnings. Is there a 'rank' associated with them, like 1...4?

No details in the log, at least that I saw decoded. But how can there possibly be a temp warning within a few minutes of when I first started driving, around city streets, with the ambient temp in the mid-40's F?

Sounds like a loose sensor or connection... I'll have them check it out at the next yearly service next month. Thanks!

 

[PV-EV]

No details in the log, at least that I saw decoded. But how can there possibly be a temp warning within a few minutes of when I first started driving, around city streets, with the ambient temp in the mid-40's F?

Sounds like a loose sensor or connection... I'll have them check it out at the next yearly service next month. Thanks!

Those warnings are for the sensors, not the temperatures.

 

[gregd]

Those warnings are for the sensors, not the temperatures.

Ah, ok. Sorry, I misunderstood. So, I presume nothing critical, and one that can wait until next month, especially since it seems to have gone away...

Where would I find the Rank information?

 

[PV-EV]

I'm not sure where the rank is found. It should be in the log somewhere. The sensors are RTD's in the motor. Could be the sensor, the wire harness, the connectors or the PEM. Best to let service check it out.

 

[rgjones]

1115: DMC FW: Motor Temp Sensor 2 warning
1116: DMC FW: Motor Temp Sensors Differ warning

Courtesy of the Tesla Tattler 'decode' command which can decode all Roadster errors and warnings.

 

[gregd]

So, had the annual service yesterday. The SC confirmed the problem with the sensors, though they seem to be confused a little about whether the motor is actually running hot or not. Things were pretty clogged up (normal road vacuuming duties), but even after that, they say there's still a problem.

Unfortunately, the sensor is not replaceable by itself. New motor is $10k, but they will see what they can do about either a discount or perhaps some sort of swap.

If the temperature isn't really running hot, then the only down-side of leaving things as they are is that the car might think it needs to shut down at an inopportune time. Given that risk, I probably need to have this fixed before Summer.

If the motor really is still running hot after being cleaned, then there's a big mystery, because it's not been driven in a manner that should do that. I'm tempted to ask them to double check their diagnosis, and get an independent measurement of motor temps.

Anybody have any similar experience, or thoughts on what could cause a motor to run hot like that?

 

[hcsharp]

When you first turn the car on in the morning before it's been driven, what temp does it show?

Check the motor temperature with an Infrared digital thermometer gun. Compare it to the reading on the VDS in the car. Do the same thing with another Roadster and see how they compare.

 

[gregd]

When you first turn the car on in the morning before it's been driven, what temp does it show?

Check the motor temperature with an Infrared digital thermometer gun. Compare it to the reading on the VDS in the car. Do the same thing with another Roadster and see how they compare.

The motor is cold in the morning, VDS has it in the first block. Battery is one block higher. Motor gets to the 2nd or 3rd block during the commute. Looking at the logs, I see a nice gradual rise in motor temp since having done the Maintenance. They said things were "pretty plugged up", so I probably had two problems - legitimately high temps due to lack of air flow, and a flaky temperature sensor. The run home after the maintenance (my up-hill trip) had a burst of 1115/1116 errors and a 1070 towards the end of the trip, about 7 min from home. That would have been about at the point where I crest the big hill into town, and have some more gentle up and down rolling stuff before a big downhill regen at the freeway exit. Note the motor temp... all really normal stuff. See the attached screen capture from the log tool... First part is stop and go freeway getting out of one town, then the drive up the hill, through destination town, to the exit, then final course home. The errors were about at the 26 minute mark, plus or minus.

So, I think the only remaining issue is the flaky sensor, and the issue that the car could freak out if it thought the motor were hot when it's not. The risk of that (or anything else?), and what sort of deal the SC can work out with the factory, would determine whether to swap the motor.

One last thought... the main group of 1115/1116 errors occurred after a range charge, during a range drive, and now seem to be associated with regen, e.g. stop and go traffic.. Is there something in the non-motor part of the drive train (inverter?) that's really the root cause? Where physically is this sensor located?

 

[gregd]

Hi folks,

A quick update on this... I've done some poking around in the logs, and notice that a number of the 1115/1116 errors have been AFTER a drive is completed, car not moving. Odd. On one example day I made note of what I did and I compared times in the logs. The errors occurred during CHARGING. I do only 24 amps here at home, 240v, so this isn't a high stress item. It also explains the timing of the some of other examples, which seem to correspond to when regen is active.

Since the SC wants to replace the drive train to fix this (Yike$$$!) I'm wondering if they've really got it diagnosed properly. Didn't Tesla remove the motor from the charging circuit at some point in the development? I have a 2.0 non-Sport model. Obviously during regen the motor is involved (as a generator), but not during a home charge.

Right?

 

[dhrivnak]

I was told the 1.5 used the motor as an inductor during charging which is why I get random charging errors during very humid times saying there is current leakage. So when damp I charge right after a drive while the motor is warm. So yes it sounded the motor is not in the loop for later models. Which unfortunately does not help you much.

 

[gregd]

I was told the 1.5 used the motor as an inductor during charging which is why I get random charging errors during very humid times saying there is current leakage. So when damp I charge right after a drive while the motor is warm. So yes it sounded the motor is not in the loop for later models. Which unfortunately does not help you much.

Anything that can eliminate potential causes for the error helps, especially if they are expensive. Thanks!

 

[hcsharp]

Nice work detecting that it happens during charging (regen or grid). I don't have any answers but agree there's a good chance they misdiagnosed at the SC. I'll keep thinking about it.

 

[gregd]

Hi all, reviving this thread by way of an update, for archive purposes...

The 1115 & 1116, along with a bunch of 1146 errors mostly but not totally went away last fall, after the SC diagnosed what they called at the time a "wiring error" with the PEM fan. Those errors started creeping back up over the intervening months, to the point where I was getting a couple of dozen during a day's driving. Since it's time for the annual service, I asked the SC to take another look.

After some days of diagnosis, the tech (a different one than last fall) concluded that, actually, my motor sensor is just fine, verified with some direct measurements. He concludes that it's the PEM that isn't reading it correctly, and is reporting the errors. The refurbished PEM that I got back in 2015 as part of the fix for the 1144 errors (the whole wimpy PEM fan connector failure saga) turns out to be a a used one, with the fan connector board replaced. So, potentially, not one that was fully vetted, if I understand the history correctly. Anyway, it would take another PEM replacement to fix this current situation, they said. Good news, in that a PEM replacement is cheaper than a new drive motor ($8k vs $10k), but still not cheap. We decided I could live with the log errors, since there's nothing being flagged to the VDS as an issue, as there's really nothing fundamentally wrong with the car's operation. At least we "know" what's going on, and I can monitor for any further degradation so as to catch it before it starts affecting vehicle operation.

But, there's a twist... The data is early, mind you, but whatever they did during this annual service seems to have also fixed the problem, at least for now. In a day and a half's travels, no further 1115, 1116, or 1146 errors (or any others, for that matter) were logged! Wild guess, but perhaps the PEM isn't bad after all, and it was just a loose connection somewhere. Either that, or the tech figured out how to suppress the messages to keep me from being annoyed by them.

 

[hcsharp]

If they replaced your PEM in 2015 why isn't it under warranty? If they think the problems are due to a board that was never vetted it seems like they should be responsible for it. I agree it sounds more like a loose connection.

 

[PV-EV]

The PEM connections are crappy as you no doubt know. I was getting a lot of errors and the car wouldn't drive at all, or charge. I replaced three connectors and mating pins and voila! no more errors. I took the car out for the first time today and proved to myself that she's back to normal. Key for me was replacing the APS connector.

 

[gregd]

If they replaced your PEM in 2015 why isn't it under warranty? If they think the problems are due to a board that was never vetted it seems like they should be responsible for it. I agree it sounds more like a loose connection.

The replaced PEM did come with a warranty, now that you mention it, but I expect it's expired by now. Either way, they volunteered that they would apply what I paid for it (mostly labor) towards the new PEM, which I think is very fair. The replaced PEM itself was practically free, as they worked a deal to get me a solution to the connector problem.

I think this need to yank connectors off every year, especially given they used ones with marginal ratings and not designed for cycling, is really the weak spot in the 2.x car. Its habit of playing chipmunk with road debris doesn't help things, either, forcing us to make the bad connector situation all the worse.

 

[gregd]

The PEM connections are crappy as you no doubt know. I was getting a lot of errors and the car wouldn't drive at all, or charge. I replaced three connectors and mating pins and voila! no more errors. I took the car out for the first time today and proved to myself that she's back to normal. Key for me was replacing the APS connector.

Our posts crossed... Yes, I agree. And, congrats on getting your car back on the road!

Curious, which one is the APS connector, and what signals does it carry?

 

[PV-EV]

Passenger side of PEM. Plainly visible with trunk open. 12 volt 40 amp I believe. Just power.