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Self-driving cars (level 3) to be allowed on UK roads

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,297
UK, Milton Keynes
I'm okay with the term "Autopilot". For me it works as you may expect on a motorway. Set a cruise speed and away it goes. Lane keeping is pretty faultless in this environment. The constant steering nags spoil the effect, but they are not its fault.

"FSD" on the other hand is just complete b*****ks
 

UrbanSplash

Member
Nov 10, 2019
404
175
UK
I don’t think the marketing worked on me in that I didn’t expect a Tesla drives itself around all roads etc. Perhaps arguing it’s confusing is more appropriate. For buyers of any car currently I think the marketing is confusing regarding capabilities. I do believe there is a perception Tesla is more advanced and can do more than other manufacturers in autonomy. Which isn’t the case at all currently. Yes you get snazzy visualisations etc, but from a driving perspective it’s no better than a BMW for example.

As for features, actually seen a new Hyundai that when you indicate, a side camera view appears on the dash. That’s ace! That’s far more useful and safely focussed than Tesla can offer.

Full self driving cars where you can put your feet up and watch Netflix isn’t going to happen. The price Tesla puts on FSD is crazy in my view. Even if features do vastly improve, legislation in the UK won’t allow for it anyway.
 

Peteski

Active Member
Oct 2, 2017
3,539
2,297
UK, Milton Keynes
As for features, actually seen a new Hyundai that when you indicate, a side camera view appears on the dash
Wouldn't you find that immensely irritating though? I know I would. It sounds like a good idea, but do you really want a camera view to pop onto your dash every single time you indicate? I don't know about you, but I check my mirrors before I indicate. I'm happy with the mirror view too, I don't need a secondary view up on the dash.
 

Mrklaw

Member
Mar 5, 2020
432
227
Berkshire
if you boil it down Autopilot is just radar cruise + lane keeping. Pretty common these days even on much more affordable cars. It definitely has that 'apple reality distortion' effect going on where people assume it does more than it does. Maybe some are coming to the brand having had cheaper cars without those things so its still special to them? I've never had them - regular dumb cruise is the best I had before so its definitely useful - just not magic

the 10 second thing means pretty much you don't need to pay attention, whereas now you absolutely do. It helps reduce the micromanaging of throttle and steering, but you still need to pay attention to what other drivers are doing, and what your car is doing too. going from that to 'oh hey driver, I don't think I can handle the roundabout coming up, can you take over?' is a massive leap. And also means anything that happens within that 10 second window it has to handle autonomously - so someone running into the road, car swerving into your lane etc.
 

Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,359
923
Knaphill
New article on the Verge:

You just linked the verge, that links plainsite, that links greenspan... Talk about getting going down the TSLAQ rabbit hole. Ok, here we go...

Title: "Tesla privately admits Elon Musk has been exaggerating about ‘full self-driving’"

Reality:
"In an earnings call in January, Musk told investors that he was “highly confident the car will be able to drive itself with reliability in excess of human this year.” (It would appear the DMV was referring to these January comments, which Moore misunderstood as a tweet from Musk.)"

Here is the full memo text note the bold parts regarding how Elon arrived at his confidence level and judge by yourself:

"
On March 9, 2021, DMV representatives, Miguel Acosta, Nathan Gargiulo, Jennifer Berry and Emily Bisnett participated in a teleconference call via Microsoft Teams with Tesla representatives Eric Williams, CJ Moore, Alex Cobern, & Beth Mykytiuk. The call started at 1:30pm.



Update on City Street Pilot: Currently there are 824vehicles in the pilot program - 753 employees and 71 nonemployees. Pilot participants are across 37 states with majority of participants in California. As of March 2021, pilot participants have driven over 153,000 miles using the City Streets feature. By the end of the Week of March 9, 2021 Tesla will expand this pool of participants to approximately 1600. In a tweet on March 5, 2021, Musk says the current beta program will double and the next version would be 10x that size. Further expansion of this number will need to be aligned with Elon Musk.



DMV asked about how the limitations and capabilities will be communicated to the approximately 800 new participants. Tesla had previously called each participant individually. Tesla indicated they are working on developing a video for the participants. Tesla will share the video with DMV once it is finalized.



DMV asked about the Tweet Elon Musk sent 3/9/2021, “Assuming user approves warning and agrees to drive carefully, it will be download latest QA tested FSD “Beta” build as soon as car connects to wifi. Build 8.3 of FSD should be done QA testing by end of next week, so that’s roughly when download button should show up”. Tesla said they are not able to comment on the specifics of the download button.



DMV asked about the early access program and how the additional beta participants will be selected. The next group of participants will include referrals from existing participants. The new participants will be vetted by Tesla by looking at insurance telematics based on the VINs registered to that participant.



DMV asked about the feedback loop for participants. Tesla indicated that participants provide feedback either by email or send written letter. Tesla also tracks when there are failures or when the feature is deactivated. CJ Moore described these as “disengagements”. Tesla takes video footage and then labels and categorizes the event to make improvements.



DMV asked CJ to address, from an engineering perspective, Elon’s messaging about L5 capability by the end of the year. Elon’s tweet does not match engineering reality per CJ. Tesla is at Level 2 currently. The ratio of driver interaction would need to be in the magnitude of 1 or 2 million miles per driver interaction to move into higher levels of automation. Tesla indicated that Elon is extrapolating on the rates of improvement when speaking about L5 capabilities. Tesla couldn’t say if the rate of improvement would make it to L5 by end of calendar year.



DMV asked how the sales team ensures that messaging about the vehicle capabilities and limitations are communicated. Tesla sales associate receives training on autopilot including having to drive the vehicle. The associate receives a training certification. Ongoing video content is sent to associates who are quizzed on the content. Customers are shown the features of the vehicle when purchasing and if a customer inquires about getting the feature being piloted, they are directed to an email where they can apply to be part of the early access program.



DMV asked about regular software updates being released and how Tesla evaluates the potential advancement of levels of autonomy. Tesla indicated that they are still firmly in L2. Before they release updates to customers, the AP team tests and drives the vehicles every day. They would know when they are getting closer to L3 like performance well in advance of a potential release.



DMV thanked Tesla for the discussion and indicated that DMV would appreciate future updates as they become available.



The call ended at 2pm.

"


Also, sounds like someone is pretty salty:

"Tesla didn’t respond to a request for comment, likely because the company has dissolved its press office and typically doesn’t respond to media requests anymore."
 

Drew57

Active ember
Apr 4, 2020
1,115
1,351
Chester UK
Unlike Musk, the engineers I used to work with were meticulous to the point of being risk averse & quite rightly resisted all pressure from senior management or marketing to make ANY announcements until fully tested, certified and complete.

I understand why he probably finds the self-title 'TechnoKing' amusing but many of his proclamations suggest the opposite, almost to the point of recklessness so the more I hear about or from him, the less inclined I am to remain loyal in the future.
 

pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
1,429
1,219
mid wales
Unlike Musk, the engineers I used to work with were meticulous to the point of being risk averse & quite rightly resisted all pressure from senior management or marketing to make ANY announcements until fully tested, certified and complete.

I understand why he probably finds the self-title 'TechnoKing' amusing but many of his proclamations suggest the opposite, almost to the point of recklessness so the more I hear about or from him, the less inclined I am to remain loyal in the future.
..assume it's a spoonerism for having a splif in his underware...
I quite expect other self drive systems will come out at the same time after being quietly designed and tested - and functional...
 

Yev000

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,359
923
Knaphill
..assume it's a spoonerism for having a splif in his underware...
I quite expect other self drive systems will come out at the same time after being quietly designed and tested - and functional...
Not sure there are enough competent engineers in the world to do this in more than a couple of places, let alone at the same time, but we shall see.
 

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