Self-driving cars (level 3) to be allowed on UK roads

[JAR897]

Moderator comment - thread merged from 3 sources so some initial posts may be duplicates and/or not follow sequential thread flow

Self-driving cars to be allowed on UK roads this year

Self-driving vehicles could be allowed on UK roads by the end of this year, the government has said.

The Department for Transport said automated lane-keeping systems (ALKS) would be the first type of hands-free driving legalised.

The technology controls the position and speed of a car in a single lane but only up to speeds of 37mph (60km/h)

But insurers have warned the government's definition of ALKS as 'self-driving' is misleading.

Previously, the government had said these new laws would be in place by spring this year and told the BBC there was no delay in its suggested timeframes.

 

[NewbieT]

Moderator comment - several posts moved from UK Government Calls for Automated Lane Keeping Technology

It’s on! Self-driving cars to be allowed on UK roads this year

Fix the phantom braking first PLEASE.

 

[JAR897]

I am assuming, based on definitions of level 3 autonomous driving, that this would mean no more need to wiggle the steering wheel every 30 seconds? Sounds like automated lane changing etc is still out of scope though... sounds to me like the proposed Gov recommendation is moving us only to level 2.5 (35mph is a joke!)?

Level 2: The vehicle can control both steering and accelerating/decelerating. Here the automation falls short of self-driving because a human sits in the driver’s seat and can take control of the car at any time. Tesla Autopilot and Cadillac (General Motors) Super Cruise systems both qualify as Level 2.

Level 3: Level 3 vehicles have “environmental detection” capabilities and can make informed decisions for themselves, such as accelerating past a slow-moving vehicle. But―they still require human override. The driver must remain alert and ready to take control if the system is unable to execute the task.

Levels of self-driving cars

 

[Llama.]

Moderator comment - post and some following threads merged from "U.K. Govt to Allow Self Driving Cars in 2021"

What do you make if this announcement?

U.K. Government to Allow Self Driving Cars

I’m surprised the govt is using the term Self Driving.

Also Lane Keep Assist features will be allowed up to 37 MPH.

Frankly my Tesla M3 Autopilot doesn’t feel safe unless I’m on a motorway.

And how are Tesla allowed to offer the features in our car if they are not permitted in the U.K. yet? Are we using Autopilot illegally right now. Wouldn’t that void our insurance if there was an incident?

Does this pave the way for more FSD features to become available in the U.K.?

 

[JAR897]

Ha, think there's a few excited people this morning - similar post here Self-driving cars (lvl 3) to be allowed on UK roads

Moderator comment - threads now merged

 

[Envchem]

Up to 37mph is the main point that I get out of this. How will it affect the release of the so called FSD beta I don't know. Best case scenario for me is that we get a limited version of FSD during 2022.

 

[Llama.]

Now there are three posts. I did look first. Perhaps we were all posting while having our morning cuppa.

Lovely admin, please can you merge!

 

[phil4]

I wouldn't hold your breath. The UK seems to be an afterthought to Tesla. As such I can't see them making the required changes to the software (detect motorway, speed below 37, stop the nag) and it working coming any time soon.

 

[Adopado]

Just wait for insurance companies to load premiums for all autopilot capable cars... in fact reports seem to suggest this has already been happening for Tesla’s this year despite an average reduction for all vehicles. Perhaps they had been warned this was coming.

 

[nxsynjs]

37Mph..That’s the kicker isn’t it. I seem to remember the 37mph figure is from some UN guideline/regulation. With it set that slow, it’ll be an exercise in frustration and even more dangerous as automated cars become mobile road blocks for HGV, Vans, Renault twizzies... etc

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The Gov allowing something and Tesla being able to deliver it aren't the same thing and I don't see Tesla beng able to do it any time soon.

Reading the definition it looks like level 3 - the driver still needs to be there and the system needs to be able to execute a managed handover within 10 seconds - in other words that means both the driver needs to be ready to take over within 10s and the car needs to be able to deal with any situation safely for 10s into the future but recognises worsening conditions or reading the situation ahead to know it needs to hand back control. On a motorway (not that its viable given the speed limit) that would probably mean 10s before reaching the exit for example. Thats the challenge, 10s is an eternity even at 30 odd mph. Spotting obstructions in the road, pedestrians, etc. The manufactuers could opt for a shorter time period, say 3s, but then they need to do more to ensure the driver is ready. Under 1s is effectively where we are now.

 

[Foucault]

Isn’t this just the UNECE rules that were proposed last year (37mph is 60kph)?

 

[phil4]

This could all back fire for us.

Clearly, we already can do >37mph albeit with a nudge of the wheel periodically.

This -could- remove that ability, especially if as required, Tesla seeks to get their cars approved, the approval almost certainly won't let the car continue doing it's think about 37.

So we could have a situation where the legislation means Tesla have to remove FSD/AP above 37mph.

It does also make you wonder if it's not legal now, what are we doing when we use it?

 

[nxsynjs]

This could all back fire for us.

Clearly, we already can do >37mph albeit with a nudge of the wheel periodically.

This -could- remove that ability, especially if as required, Tesla seeks to get their cars approved, the approval almost certainly won't let the car continue doing it's think about 37.

So we could have a situation where the legislation means Tesla have to remove FSD/AP above 37mph.

It does also make you wonder if it's not legal now, what are we doing when we use it?

Yeah.. that's my worry too. Although to be fair, it would also apply to other car marques that have adaptive cruise, lane keeping etc also. VW, Merc,BMW,Kia, Hyundai, Nissan et al.

 

[K3v1n]

The 37MPH was just for the pilot as I read the announcement, then it will be raised to 70mph

 

[davidmc]

I wish reports would stop with this "It can easily be tricked" about Tesla AP/FSD

ANY car can be tricked. Put a brick on the gas pedal of any moving car would make it drive it self.........in a straight-ish line........and the kerbs as your steering.

 

[Durzel]

37mph is pants. Basically for congested stop-start parts, useless in every other respect.

 

[DrJFoster]

The Gov allowing something and Tesla being able to deliver it aren't the same thing and I don't see Tesla beng able to do it any time soon.

Reading the definition it looks like level 3 - the driver still needs to be there and the system needs to be able to execute a managed handover within 10 seconds - in other words that means both the driver needs to be ready to take over within 10s and the car needs to be able to deal with any situation safely for 10s into the future but recognises worsening conditions or reading the situation ahead to know it needs to hand back control. On a motorway (not that its viable given the speed limit) that would probably mean 10s before reaching the exit for example. Thats the challenge, 10s is an eternity even at 30 odd mph. Spotting obstructions in the road, pedestrians, etc. The manufactuers could opt for a shorter time period, say 3s, but then they need to do more to ensure the driver is ready. Under 1s is effectively where we are now.

I remember learning to drive with the 3 second rule. I guess for FSD that's now 10 seconds

But I agree, the car has to be reliable for the period during which a managed hand back of control is performed otherwise it's simply doomed. Tesla aren't in that position at the moment, nor can I see them being for some time

 

[Pink Duck]

Source context: Government paves the way for self-driving vehicles on UK roads

The media is hyping this a bit. Really it's just a weak legal permission from UK Gov to reduce crawling motorway traffic nuisance rear-end/collision disruption.

 

[ringi]

It would be useful for stop/go traphic in moterway jams. If it can automatically detected a speed limit of 30mph on a smart moterway and keep to it, without hitting the car in front it could reduce rear-end/collision disruption.