I’m definitely in the: “want the car to live up to the promises” camp. The sooner the UK government gets the rules changed to catch up with new capabilities, the better. (Likewise for escooters). It is hard to claim the government supports a digital economy when it enforces laws from the horse-n-cart days.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Self-driving cars UK Discussion
- Thread starter randompixel
- Start date
However by the reports on here, it seems like zero chance of that happening anything time soon or ever
.Use AP for pretty the whole way from Leicester to London and back at the weekend. Zero phantom braking, AP did 99% of lane changes, and picked up speed limit changes fine. But its painful to see how 'reactive' the the EU AP codestack is, versus proactive/planning the FSD Beta code in the US is.
Turning off the M1 was probably the worst bit, you go from just having to pay some attention to actually needing to drive. Frustrating when we can all see the FSD beta code will handle A406 traffic with little problems.
We can just hope legislation in the UK changes sooner rather than later, but I doubt it. Especially in the last software update existing the Mway repressed to needing human input inorder to comply with EU rules. So if anything we might get stricter rules, like AP even on Mways can only operate at 30pmh.....am sure that what the 'level 3 complinnant' Mercedes system does? It works but only up to a very low speed limit, and geo fenced?
I wish there were some option to opt out of UNECE regs. Bring on some personal responsibility and accountability!
There's a guy on here @joexn - who had/has access to a car that has either been rooted, or is "in testing" over here, and it can be summoned from across a car park like in the States, perfectly fine.
If my car wasn't under warranty I'd be seriously interested in the possibility of modifying the "ece_restrictions" and "eu_vehicle" flags in the configuration that basically lock our cars so badly down. Obviously it wouldn't mean we'd get FSD beta, but even so.
There's a guy on here @joexn - who had/has access to a car that has either been rooted, or is "in testing" over here, and it can be summoned from across a car park like in the States, perfectly fine.
If my car wasn't under warranty I'd be seriously interested in the possibility of modifying the "ece_restrictions" and "eu_vehicle" flags in the configuration that basically lock our cars so badly down. Obviously it wouldn't mean we'd get FSD beta, but even so.
This why the FSD Beta code is so exciting. ALL current 'autonomous' systems including the current Tesla highway stack is purely reactive, at most they 'guess' at accident prevention (Phantom braking), but have no memory, 'intelligence', or prediction of what the road, cars around are doing. The FSD Beta code in the US is gradually surely building in all the 'knowledge' required for real driving. When we drive, we don't need vision of all the cars around (actually its impossible for us to do this), we don't need to 'map' out the road ahead etc, and quite often driving is mind numbing and boring.
Its our brains that enable driving not anything else, the DVLA is quite happy for you drive even with monocular vision and with physical disabilities, but any hint of medical conditions that effect mental function and its no-way, even low blood sugar levels. The exciting bit is you can see the FSD Beta code getting there, its 'remembering' where other road users are, trying to 'predict' what other road users are going to do, essentially starting to show all the basic stuff we do without thinking.
Am pretty sure there is LOADS more code development to come, but the progress from the current AP code is night/day. The fact ALL our cars can run this code, but we just aren't allowed it is just frustrating. From the technology point of view, it really is cutting edge stuff that I personally cannot wait to try.
We'll be waiting years.
It's tough to get too excited about something we are unlikely to see for another 5 years imo, if not longer. UNECE regulations will take years on their own to move in any significant way, and we're a small RHD market in a wider market (Europe) that Tesla patently does not give a crap about.
I also tend to think that other manufacturers will carry on getting level 2 and even 3 stuff working better than Tesla. They already have ALKS and ADAS that are better. AP has not improved at all over here in years, and it's all very well saying "it's all in the other stack we'll get when FSD beta can come over here" but that doesn't help owners who are looking at waiting years for any measurable improvement.
It's tough to get too excited about something we are unlikely to see for another 5 years imo, if not longer. UNECE regulations will take years on their own to move in any significant way, and we're a small RHD market in a wider market (Europe) that Tesla patently does not give a crap about.
I also tend to think that other manufacturers will carry on getting level 2 and even 3 stuff working better than Tesla. They already have ALKS and ADAS that are better. AP has not improved at all over here in years, and it's all very well saying "it's all in the other stack we'll get when FSD beta can come over here" but that doesn't help owners who are looking at waiting years for any measurable improvement.
I find nothing exciting about the idea of having better lane keeping assistant or reactive systems. The boundary of technology is what the like of Google/Tesla are pushing with AI code base. The Dall-e-2 is frankly scary/sobering - a few lines of code can now essentially explain our dreams, all of sudden the human brain is starting to look very mundane. Over the last few years AI/NN development clearly has moved on dramatically from the 'advanced statistical data mining' of multiple forest plots etc.
What I surprised even a local/smallish company essentially 'mocked' the opensource code DeepMind published in Nature in 2019 as 'too simplistic' and 'out dated'. The push for 'generalised' AI seems to be really gathering speed, the most amazing thing is DeepMind HASN'T published any opensource code for 18 months in peer reviewed main stream journals.....That's a lifetime for them, where as previously it was a Nature paper every 6 months. Either they have run out of ideas, or there is something BIG coming, Tesla I would hope are developing their codes on a similar basis. In that context, honestly lane-keep assist, who really cares??
There are 2 issues, the range and the technology they use. One of which is under Tesla controls, the technology. For summon to work they need to have a constant connection and bluetooth can glitch which results in the connection momentarily dropping and the car stopping. If they fixed that then a halfway house of summon being reliable from even 3 meters away from the car would work
We're not going to have cars driving across car parks in the UK any time soon, but there is a lot of improvement to even basic summon that they could do
At least some people seem to base their optimism about the beta FSD in the US on watching YouTube videos of people using it. I’ve never watched these videos because, frankly, I’ve got better things to do with my time. But yesterday in an attempt to understand all the excitement I wasted a couple of hours, which I’ll never get back, watching several videos.
The first thing that struck me, and has been mentioned many times, is how much easier it looks in the US. Wide, quiet roads with no roundabouts and things to complicate the process.
But also I was struck my how many driver interventions there still are. Some of them were quite minor, but were still interventions. Some driver interventions were necessary to prevent a serious accident. It shows that the beta is still quite definitely at Level 2 where the driver has to be constantly vigilant and able to intervene at a moments notice. This is a long way of Level 3 and a VERY long way off Level 4.
Translate that to UK roads and while I think Level 3 might be possible on motorways sometime soon I don’t think Level 4 is even on the horizon.
The first thing that struck me, and has been mentioned many times, is how much easier it looks in the US. Wide, quiet roads with no roundabouts and things to complicate the process.
But also I was struck my how many driver interventions there still are. Some of them were quite minor, but were still interventions. Some driver interventions were necessary to prevent a serious accident. It shows that the beta is still quite definitely at Level 2 where the driver has to be constantly vigilant and able to intervene at a moments notice. This is a long way of Level 3 and a VERY long way off Level 4.
Translate that to UK roads and while I think Level 3 might be possible on motorways sometime soon I don’t think Level 4 is even on the horizon.
Quick drive to the shops just now. Auto main beam is showing as on when AP is engaged but doesn’t come on with TACC.
Under controls, it isn’t on but can be turned on and then off and seems to stay off unless AP is disengaged/reengaged
no lights actually came on in daylight.
I’ll test it for real tonight.
Under controls, it isn’t on but can be turned on and then off and seems to stay off unless AP is disengaged/reengaged
no lights actually came on in daylight.
I’ll test it for real tonight.
Yes, agree with all of this
Level 4 simply won't exist with current hardware. There are a whole host of reason but pick something like dynamic range in a vision only system. Even a high end camera at £10k still fails miserably against the human eye in regard to 'seeing' detail of dark and light simultaneously. Add in the fact that the human eye can adjust its range via contraction/expansion of the pupil for even better visual acuity.
And Tesla don't use expensive cameras at £10k a corner. They are low end, with relatively cheap sensors and chromatic aberrations in the lens that make it unusable in high contrast scenarios.
We're simply not getting L4 in our cars. Ever.
Filings with the NHSTA body in USA have confirmed that Tesla view the system as level 2. Elon has also recently talked about a new product - a robotaxi. That tells you everything you know. These cars we all bought were supposed to be Robotaxis one day so if Elon is now saying he needs a new product for that, well, that pretty much makes it a wrap for all our current cars never getting to L4.
The new robo taxi is supposed to be launched in 2024. Does Musk really think that in two years Tesla can develop, test, verify, produce at volume and commercially launch a robotaxi vehicle (with no steering wheel or pedals) that meets regulatory rules? Given his past record, which is abysmal, I find I find it impossible to believe.
And of course all Tesla’s were supposed to be able to operate as robo taxis in the future. I’ve actually read on this forum (UK and Ireland) one person say he’s looking forward to sending his car out to earn money as a robo taxi. Cloud cuckoo land comes to mind.
Nope, the regs only state that the operator needs to be within 10m, it doesn't specify the mechanism. Tesla choose to use Bluetooth even though in practice you end up needing to be within 1m for it to work.
Other manufacturers like BMW and Hyundai use something better, but between a key and the car. Tesla are limited by their design to use a phone.
Well technically, thats what was promised. I didn't realised there were people still believed it though. I suppose, if you don't follow the developments, then maybe some people are just thinking its a bit delayed but once you get underneath whats happening, you realise its a pipe dream.
AP is fine for the most part anyway and who wants to send their cars out to strangers, completely unsupervised?
God knows what they'll get up to in the back seat. You might find your car in an online video that needs 18+ verification to view
Our 'vision' is not defined by the eye, the visual cortex of our brains is what does the magic. The 'raw' image from our retina is upside down, interrupted by blood vessels, and actually only have tiny FOV. The 'image' we all see right now doesn't exist in any optical setting, it's a construct produced by our brain.
Similar threads
